UK to be EU&#x27;s largest population by 2050 - are we over-populated?

Due to economies of scale, every new baby is another reduction per capita of the cost of public services. Shag for Britain, countrymen. God save the Queen :crown:

We must of course ensure we don't do anything stupid like cutting infrastructure or public services, we're already criminally under-supplied. This means we're going to have to grow up and stop blaming it all on immigrants.

Supply of land is no issue.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 22

scrotgrot

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10155449/Britains-baby-boom-will-affect-our-economy-more-than-anything-Mark-Carney-does.html

Instructive article, shame about the private good public bad but apart from that bang on.

Ought we to leave the EU while we can and pocket our gains, or ought we to stay the course, watch the euro fail and wrest power from Germany? I trust that the euro will fail; but will it take the union with it? If it does, and we're in, we lose. If it doesn't, and we're in, we win.

I hope we stay in, the euro fails, and the union endures, with the UK at the bridge, France at the prow, and Germany reduced to first mate.

Reply 23

Rakas21

Original post by codegirl

All of the richest most prosperous nations in the world are experiencing declining populations. There is a reason for this. Its a natural organic process which we should not be tampering with.

Average person is drain on the welfare state already. Average salary is about £25,000, yet average person takes around £35,000 a year from welfare state.

Importing huge pockets of poverty form the developing world for short term economic reasons, is going to be a long term disaster on the welfare state and the resulting standards of living.

We still had no problem becoming more prosperous when we had positive birthrates.

So lets cut welfare entitlement.

There's no reason we must import from poor countries.

Reply 24

scrotgrot

Original post by codegirl

Yes, and the children of these immigrants were integrated and indistinguishable. Thats not happening in the UK or anywhere else in the West, in fact the pockets of poverty from the third world are increasing because the flood of immigrants from the regions are increasing. They are just pouring into already poor areas. Integration then becomes even harder. Improving the standards of living for the poor becomes even harder. Societies within societies are formed.

France for example has prison population which is 70% Muslim. What sort of consequences does this have for France going forward?

Only social housing can fashion diverse communities - in terms of income, culture and lifestyle. Ghettoisation is avoided; integration happens organically.

New Labour era diversity doctrine now looks sensible. Don't know what you got till it's gone.

France is monocultural. Our multiculti model is superior; thanks to hawkish types however we are throwing away this advantage.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 25

Fullofsurprises

Original post by codegirl

Yes, and the children of these immigrants were integrated and indistinguishable. Thats not happening in the UK or anywhere else in the West, in fact the pockets of poverty from the third world are increasing because the flood of immigrants from the regions are increasing. They are just pouring into already poor areas. Integration then becomes even harder. Improving the standards of living for the poor becomes even harder. Societies within societies are formed.

France for example has prison population which is 70% Muslim. What sort of consequences does this have for France going forward?

It's true that integration pressures have not been as high in Europe in the postwar migration waves than they were in the 19th and early 20th century waves into the US. However, that's not a uniform pattern in America and we are seeing how society is there now, rather than how it was 50, 75 and 100 years ago. There still are tensions between immigrant groups in the US (and isolated, separate groups), but that was more so a long time ago. If you looked for example at Jewish immigrants into the US, there were larger numbers of Jewish prisoners than the general population as a percentage in the pre-WWI era. The same was true of Italian migrants in the 1910s and 20s. Crime, harassment, disorder and oppression by the host community, tend to pursue all immigrant groups. It's hard to adjust to a new country, even for the children and grandchildren.

I agree that we have problems with particular groups, especially Muslims, but that doesn't make our current situation all that outlandish by world standards. Perhaps we need to be more patient.

Reply 26

TheGuyReturns

Buy property. Ride the gains.

Reply 27

TimmonaPortella

Original post by Observatory

the UK tends to receive higher achieving immigrants than Germany

Any source for this?

Reply 28

Rakas21

Original post by scrotgrot

Only social housing can fashion diverse communities - in terms of income, culture and lifestyle. Ghettoisation is avoided; integration happens organically.

New Labour era diversity doctrine now looks sensible. Don't know what you got till it's gone.

France is monocultural. Our multiculti model is superior; thanks to hawkish types however we are throwing away this advantage.

Social housing could fashion diverse communities but it has not for decades. In places like Bradford for example there are places which can only be described as Muslim ghettos. The state is too afraid of racial quotas for estates to force integration.

A large portion of the population seems to disagree.

Reply 29

Observatory

http://akarlin.com/2012/05/berlin-gets-bad-news-from-pisa/

Original post by TimmonaPortella

Any source for this?

Reply 30

SeaPony

2

Original post by TheGuyReturns

Buy property. Ride the gains.

Renting is a goldmine these days, cashing in on over crowded Britain.

Reply 31

Observatory

Original post by scrotgrot

Only social housing can fashion diverse communities - in terms of income, culture and lifestyle. Ghettoisation is avoided; integration happens organically.

New Labour era diversity doctrine now looks sensible. Don't know what you got till it's gone.

France is monocultural. Our multiculti model is superior; thanks to hawkish types however we are throwing away this advantage.

The main change the government has made is to impose an income bar for non-EU immigration that is somewhat above the median income, and to remove or at least impede alternative routes (chain marriage, diploma mills, etc.).

The result of this will be that future immigrant cohorts will outperform natives on average, certainly in terms of income and probably across the board on most social measures such as crime, life expectancy, education, and childrens' prospects.

This will remove most of the tension at the bottom, which mostly comes from direct competition between marginal native workers and marginal immigrant workers, and in the middle, which mostly comes from a perception that immigrants are degrading the quality and cohesion of the society by consistently underperforming. At the top, there shouldn't be any problems as high earners and the highly educated seem to support immigration even more than the New Labour level pretty much across the board.

So the government's approach may well succeed by, instead of integrating a new underclass more effectively into the native underclass, simply denying that underclass access to the country. Immigrants who have to prove a salary of at least £35,000 won't have any interest living on a council estate.

Reply 32

El Salvador

Original post by SeaPony

Typical leftist economics (non existent).

...

Typical brainless leftist.

I agree. @Rakas21 was a three-term Conservative prime minister on TSR MHoC. He's seriously on the radical left.

Reply 33

NHM713

4

Original post by GuppyFox

http://www.cityam.com/221125/population-growth-uk-become-biggest-country-european-union-2050

Are we becoming too over-populated? Do you think we will be able to keep up with population demand?

Funny how we're still questioning this :rolleyes:

.

Reply 34

SeaPony

2

Original post by Little Toy Gun

I agree. @Rakas21 was a three-term Conservative prime minister on TSR MHoC. He's seriously on the radical left.

Yes he is on the left, the Conservative party is not really conservative any more.

Reply 35

Marco1

15

It's been overpopulated for years but at the end of the day sustainability of the green environment of the UK is very low on the agenda. The heavy population is polluting it and degrading our public services infrastructure.
For example:
Look at the traffic on British roads. Many roads in the North West where I live are gridlocked at certain hours of the day. Combine this with the intricate web of motorways that run the length and breadth of the UK, the traffic pouring not only through cities, but through small towns and villages too. Britain is dying and politicians just want to build more housing year after year after year. Because money, money, money, is the driving force, not common sense or respect for the quality of life for future generations. It sucks. The only way politicians seem to be able to control population is indirectly, by wars. Lets face it: we humans, for all our good intentions, are kind of like a plague of insects greedily eating up the green bits.

Reply 36

Swanbow

19

As usual Rakas puts the point across quite welll. It will put us in a better position with our ageing population and low birthrates. Also pretty much guarantees GDP growth, without heavy investment in technology to increase productivity, as well as bring in more tax revenues. However with a population of that size we will need a lot of investment in education, housing, roads, rail lines, energy production and health if we want to keep things going as they are now. It will require taking on a more sizeable debt at some point in the future to pay for it all.

But there is the question of identity, and whether or not the people want our country drastically changed in order to remain relevant in the world. Backlash against immigration is pretty strong, with the last election showing that. Is it worth it changing the face of country, becoming the America of Europe, simply in the pursuit of power and wealth?

Reply 37

Maid Marian