what would you say to someone who thought Oxbridge were elitist?
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Original post by 10161002
The teachers in my school don't care and my parents and friends are working class to the bone- they view Oxbridge as something to scorn rather than something to understand (which I'm currently trying). But I Reeeally appreciate this 
Tell them that The Pub Landlord read History at Oxford.
Original post by Doonesbury
However UC is not representative of all (or even most) students. There's 400 or so in a college, and only 4 of them on a UC team. The 4 best quizzers, that's all they are.
Exactly. The constant equating of general knowledge / memory with intelligence is somewhat upsetting.
Original post by RogerOxon
Tell them that The Pub Landlord read History at Oxford.
...? I don't understand.
Original post by RogerOxon
Tell them that The Pub Landlord read History at Oxford.
And Ali G/Borat read the same at Cambridge.
Original post by RogerOxon
Exactly. The constant equating of general knowledge / memory with intelligence is somewhat upsetting.
It isn't generally a misconclusion. Excellent and rapid recall is an integral part of intelligence and the two are strongly bound together sufficiently that the absence of it points to lower intelligence.
Original post by 10161002
...? I don't understand.
This chap. Salt of the earth.
[video="youtube;vD0Dyz4XQHs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD0Dyz4XQHs[/video]
Original post by AnaBaptist
Really Good Bloke? You don't think that a kid from an ordinary comprehensive school wouldn't watch University Challenge and assume that everybody at Oxbridge is incredibly bright?
I don't believe that a good general knowledge and intelligence necessarily correlate very far. In particular, I can't see that much more than a slightly higher than average IQ is needed to facilitate an excellent general knowledge. Anybody that reads a lot can establish an excellent general knowledge.
My point is that for most people, their only experience of people from Oxbridge, prior to attending themselves, will be to watch the contestants on UC. My fear is that many able students who haven't had the benefit of an education or family setting which has exposed them to classical music, art, travel etc would feel inadequate and not realise that not all Oxbridge people have this level of knowledge.
Original post by AnaBaptist
My point is that for most people, their only experience of people from Oxbridge, prior to attending themselves, will be to watch the contestants on UC. My fear is that many able students who haven't had the benefit of an education or family setting which has exposed them to classical music, art, travel etc would feel inadequate and not realise that not all Oxbridge people have this level of knowledge.
Doesn't stop over 35000 from applying each year.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I want to add, I didn't know anyone who had been to Oxbridge before I applied either so I also had no one to ask. I made my own mind up to apply based on the important factors like the course content and the university's facilities. I also went to the Cambridge open day to talk to people who actually knew about the university (though it's understandable not everyone can travel there). And I'd never watched university challenge before going to uni, it's too highbrow for me 
(edited 6 years ago)
The applications are undoubtedly high as Oxbridge will always attract a high number of candidates, but where are those applicants from? My guess is that as well as International applicants, the majority of candidates are South Eastern. There are LEAs such as Knowsley who very rarely have Oxbridge candidates. I imagine that North London LEAs send loads of their kids. I don't however believe that kids in Knowsley are less intelligent than their London counterparts so why the discrepancy?
We've never had a seven course dinner either but will admit to going to an 'all you can eat' buffet for a BrasenoseAdm social at the end of December interviews one year.
We've seen a lot of changes for the better at Oxford, at Brasenose and elsewhere. Not much of this gets picked up on and sometimes we think more could be made of good news. For example, in the run-up to October 15 Oxford hasn't broadcast the fact that the University has met all three of its OFFA access targets this year. So here's a BrasenoseAdm newsflash
!!! (TSR first !!!)
https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate/additional-info/access-agreement-target-categories?wssl=1
Our take on things is that admissions is a bit like opinion polls versus exit polls. Peope might say that Oxford is not for them or that they wouldn't encourage friends/sons/daughters/pupils to apply. Yet the applications data and the admits data (the exit polls) tell a different story: more people are applying from schools, postcodes, and areas that are not usually associated with Oxford.
What people say they might do and what they actually do are not always the same thing. There are still 12 days left to apply - so what we would say to somethinking about applying is do it.
We've seen a lot of changes for the better at Oxford, at Brasenose and elsewhere. Not much of this gets picked up on and sometimes we think more could be made of good news. For example, in the run-up to October 15 Oxford hasn't broadcast the fact that the University has met all three of its OFFA access targets this year. So here's a BrasenoseAdm newsflash
!!! (TSR first !!!) https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate/additional-info/access-agreement-target-categories?wssl=1
Our take on things is that admissions is a bit like opinion polls versus exit polls. Peope might say that Oxford is not for them or that they wouldn't encourage friends/sons/daughters/pupils to apply. Yet the applications data and the admits data (the exit polls) tell a different story: more people are applying from schools, postcodes, and areas that are not usually associated with Oxford.
What people say they might do and what they actually do are not always the same thing. There are still 12 days left to apply - so what we would say to somethinking about applying is do it.
I should also add that Al Murray who plays the Pub Landlord has aristocratic heritage and attended a prestigious private school in the home counties. He is hardly the sort of person a kid who goes to a comp in Wigan can relate to.
Original post by AnaBaptist
I should also add that Al Murray who plays the Pub Landlord has aristocratic heritage and attended a prestigious private school in the home counties. He is hardly the sort of person a kid who goes to a comp in Wigan can relate to.
We have to say we are more Warren Mitchell fans ("Alf Garnett", Oxford Univ) than Pub Landlord if you go in for this kind of comedy. We were sad to see that Tony Booth passed away last week who was also a regular in Till Death Us Do Part. Tony Booth's hopes of going to University were dashed when his father's back, leg, and arm were smashed up in an industrial accident and the firm just laid him off. Totally outrageous. We think he would be in the OFFA access data now. Boothie used to tongue-lash his son-in-law Tony Blair (Oxford, Balliol) quite a bit by all accounts. Una Stubbs was TDUDP as well - she's a regular in Sherlock so still going strong, just to reconnect with our audience who may wonder what we are going on about.
Brasenose, I truly hope that people listen to to you when you encourage them to apply. I also hope that those people are supported by their schools.
Original post by AnaBaptist
so why the discrepancy?
Setting aside the thought that the discrepancy exists only in your mind for the moment, perhaps the intelligent children of Knowsley should look past the chips on their parents' and siblings' shoulders and seek to improve their lot in life rather than wallowing in the mud of working class self-loathing. Not everything that is different from what you are used to is nasty and unsuitable for you to have a go at.
You really have no.undesrstanding of the reality for what life is like for some people do you 'Good' Bloke. For the record there is no A level provision for children within Knowsley LEA. When the playing field is so incredibly unbalanced for some people, and I hear stupid comments about people having to try harder or removing the chips from their shoulders, it makes me realise that nothing is likely to change. As long as 35000 people are applying to Oxbridge what's the incentive to change the demographic? Social mobility is worse than ever in the UK and I fear that it will get worse. It certainly will so long as posters continue to point out the huge popularity of Oxbridge while conveniently ignoring the fact that most Oxbridge applicants come from a few wealthy Southern boroughs and other people blame that on the fact that kids in areas with very few applicants don't work hard enough and have a bad attitude.
I haven't been on TSR for very long but in all honesty, I am not hugely liking what I see.
I haven't been on TSR for very long but in all honesty, I am not hugely liking what I see.
Original post by AnaBaptist
For the record there is no A level provision for children within Knowsley LEA.
Then the people of Knowsley should vote for a set of councillors that will put better educational policies in place rather than the under-performing, shoulder-chip creating one-party state they have elected. Which comes back to what I said earlier; they are reaping thew consequences of their own freely-made choices.
The truth is, though, that 52% of Knowsley's 16-year olds take A-levels, but they commute out of the borough to do so. Oxbridge is accessible to them.
The children of Knowsley aren't allowed to vote for their councillors; they have to deal with the situation they are presented with. Anyone with half a brain knows that the situation in any LEA is far more complex than simply voting for new politicians. At the root of most things is funding, and we all know that funding per pupil in London far exceeds funding in areas like Knowsley. Years of socioeconomic deprivation suppresses aspiration. Essentially the situation is far more nuanced than 'they could do it if they try.' I think the statistics which show that kids in places like Hertfordshire attend Oxbridge in the hundreds, compared to fewer than 4 in Knowsley bear this out.
As for travelling out of the borough, of course there will be students who are prepared to do that but that is cost prohibitive and time consuming for many students. It is an obstacle that most other children in other areas do not face.
If you and others on this thread are seeking to claim that the playing field is level for these students you are seriously deluded.
As for travelling out of the borough, of course there will be students who are prepared to do that but that is cost prohibitive and time consuming for many students. It is an obstacle that most other children in other areas do not face.
If you and others on this thread are seeking to claim that the playing field is level for these students you are seriously deluded.
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