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preyingmantis
And the actual action of shooting. Have you ever fired a gun? Even at an animal. I've been shooting before, and i can tell you that the first time you even fire the damned thing you are shaking to hell. Let alone the first time you shoot at something living
Let alone the first time you shoot at something big (like a deer or a cow)
klet alone a human


Yes, I have fired a firearm before. I have shot animals before (hunting deer, and I had to put down a few rabid wild animals that wandered onto my property over the years). I know how to use a gun. It is not a difficult thing to master, and most states (probably all, but I can't verify) with gun ownership have a gun safety course that you must pass before you can have a firearm person. You have you fire with certain accuracy before they grant you a permit, in addition to other standards.

P.S. Who the hell shoots cows?!
Of all the westernised nations to allow small arms proliferation its the one whos subjects have been brought up on a diet of rambo and terminator. Oh when will this mad cat world listen to these ramblings of mine...
Reply 82
psychic_satori
P.S. Who the hell shoots cows?!

You shoot a cow in 1 of 4 situations.
1. It has a contagious disease like Mad Cow
2. It is lame or seriously injured.
3. It is old and in pain.
4. It is no longer worth anything and it is not worth it to keep feeding it.
Mr Moncal
You shoot a cow in 1 of 4 situations.
1. It has a contagious disease like Mad Cow
2. It is lame or seriously injured.
3. It is old and in pain.
4. It is no longer worth anything and it is not worth it to keep feeding it.


Lol, thank you. Since it was in the context of hunting, I just had this mental image of someone creeping up on a cow grazing in a field, the hunter decked out in camo...
Reply 84
Mr Moncal
As some of you might know, tonight at midnight our ban on the sale and purchase of automatic assault rifles expires. The house of Representatives has declared that they will not try to renew the ban. This is because they fear what the NRA will say about them on election day. 70% of Americans want the ban reissued. So the discussion is, do you think the ban should be allowed to expire? Is the "right to bear arms" outdated?

I don't really see a need for assault weapons, though the gangsters can get them easily.
I believe that the people should have the right to bear arms in the form of rifles hand guns etc.
Whether people think gun toting is "outdated" is inconsequential. It's an amendment to our constitution. The constitution can not be ignored....it's law. Guns could be banned with a constitutional amendment, but that would take years, even decades and probably wouldn't pass anyway.
Mr Moncal
Fix problems with gun control by giving everyone a gun?


not exactly fixing gun control as much as reducing violence due to disputes where guns are involved.
Reply 86
Douglas
I don't really see a need for assault weapons, though the gangsters can get them easily.
I believe that the people should have the right to bear arms in the form of rifles hand guns etc.
Whether people think gun toting is "outdated" is inconsequential. It's an amendment to our constitution. The constitution can not be ignored....it's law. Guns could be banned with a constitutional amendment, but that would take years, even decades and probably wouldn't pass anyway.


A law to ammend the constitution could be passed in a week if it was needed. It will probably never happen but it is possible. Everyone is to worried about the NRA who is way to obsessive about guns.
Reply 87
First of all, it's ridiculous how assault rifles aren't banned in the US. Who needs a AK-47 to go shooting deer?

Small handguns and pistols, fine. But assault rifles? What is this, Africa?
Reply 88
its a sorry state of affairs where every criminal is quite easily in a position to be armed and self defence becomes a matter of blowing a guys brains out on your porch. dont get started on assault rifles that belong on and are designed for a warfield not streets.

in the UK anyone reported to have been seen with a gun with no good reason is normally surrounded by a very well trained armed response unit in about 20-30mins. Hell, even a friend of mine, whilst in year 7 (11yrs) brought out two police cars and a helicopter when some old woman reported him with what in fact was a realistic looking wooden gun his dad made him. we seem to trust that our police forces will treat the matter seriously and act quickly whilst the attitudes of some in america seem to suggest that they dont trust their police forces and everyone around them

i understand the need for guns for certain purposes for example farming, hunting etc but your average american really shouldnt have a need for one. i think you will find many non gun owning americans live fine and in perfect safety, whilst a gun ban would remove most guns, even from those who would come to your house and attack/rape etc. Any criminal if he she really wants a gun will get one, but if you make it easy like 40% of americans owning guns then it isnt hard for those who use them to their full effectiveness to get hold of them...

thousands of american kids are killed by guns every year..and you seem to put your right to bear arms above that?
Reply 89
MattG
thousands of american kids are killed by guns every year..and you seem to put your right to bear arms above that?


I don't. I believe all hand guns and automatic rifles should be banned. And then any other gun that is not legally allowed to be hunted with should as well.

First of all, it's ridiculous how assault rifles aren't banned in the US.


They were up until a few hours ago.
Reply 90
If people are allowed to bear arms then where does this right end - are peope allowed to not only have pistols and rifles but to also have tanks and can you also justify not allowing someone their own nuclear weapon (after all something that kills is something that kills - no matter how many it has the potential to kill).
MattG
in the UK anyone reported to have been seen with a gun with no good reason is normally surrounded by a very well trained armed response unit in about 20-30mins. Hell, even a friend of mine, whilst in year 7 (11yrs) brought out two police cars and a helicopter when some old woman reported him with what in fact was a realistic looking wooden gun his dad made him. we seem to trust that our police forces will treat the matter seriously and act quickly whilst the attitudes of some in america seem to suggest that they dont trust their police forces and everyone around them


The spread of population in the United States increases the response time for police to come to assist. My family residence is 15 miles from my local police station. With the greater body size that an average male has in comparison with a girl like me, if a man broke into my home, he could probably murder me with his bare hands. I don't think it would take him 20-30 minutes to do so.

i understand the need for guns for certain purposes for example farming, hunting etc but your average american really shouldnt have a need for one. i think you will find many non gun owning americans live fine and in perfect safety, whilst a gun ban would remove most guns, even from those who would come to your house and attack/rape etc. Any criminal if he she really wants a gun will get one, but if you make it easy like 40% of americans owning guns then it isnt hard for those who use them to their full effectiveness to get hold of them...


Actually, most of those 40% keep their guns in a safe, or some other means which prevent their guns from being stolen. Do some actual research on this topic, most guns that are used in crimes are obtained from the black market. Most black market guns are smuggled into the country, not taken out of homes.

thousands of american kids are killed by guns every year..and you seem to put your right to bear arms above that?


As I've repeatedly said, I think parents should certainly keep guns out of children's hands, locked away. But, just because some idiot doesn't do that, and his kid gets a hold of his and misuses it, doesn't mean that I shouldn't have the right to defend myself.
Chubb
If people are allowed to bear arms then where does this right end - are peope allowed to not only have pistols and rifles but to also have tanks and can you also justify not allowing someone their own nuclear weapon (after all something that kills is something that kills - no matter how many it has the potential to kill).


I don't think the average person could afford a tank or nuclear weapon. And, the difference is that a tank or nuke is not applicable in singular self-defense, unless an army is attacking you, which is unlikely.
Reply 93
Mr Moncal
A law to ammend the constitution could be passed in a week if it was needed.


No it couldn't. It takes rather longer than a week to ammend the constitution. It's actually a rather complex process don't you know?
Reply 94
preyingmantis
One of the key differences is that if you have a gun now you are an armed criminal. Actually possessing th gun makes you a criminal. Liekwise with replicas (which can be made lethal so are equally dangerous).
Hence whereas before the sight of a gun would have the police round, now it will have fully armed cops ready to take you down.


Most replicas cannot be made lethal unless you happen to be a gunsmith prepared to spend more on doing it than it would cost you to buy a real gun on the black market or on the continent.
Reply 95
psychic_satori
I don't think the average person could afford a tank or nuclear weapon. And, the difference is that a tank or nuke is not applicable in singular self-defense, unless an army is attacking you, which is unlikely.

Unlikely? Must just be me then. <starts mutting about them all being after me>
Reply 96
MattG
thousands of american kids are killed by guns every year..and you seem to put your right to bear arms above that?

copies and pasted
Guns, in all applications and under all conditions and circumstances, routinely kill far fewer Americans annually than a number of other unrelated causes. In fact, as Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck has regularly proven, guns actually save about 2.5 million lives a year.
Reply 97
Howard
No it couldn't. It takes rather longer than a week to ammend the constitution. It's actually a rather complex process don't you know?


I know how the constitution is ammended. It could be done in 2 or 3 days if everyone was cooperative, a week if a few were uncooperative.
Reply 98
psychic_satori
I don't think the average person could afford a tank or nuclear weapon. And, the difference is that a tank or nuke is not applicable in singular self-defense, unless an army is attacking you, which is unlikely.


I don't think anyone would worry too much about a person who couldn't afford a tank getting one in their hands. I would be more worried about Bill Gates or someone starting their own private army.
psychic_satori
I don't think the average person could afford a tank or nuclear weapon. And, the difference is that a tank or nuke is not applicable in singular self-defense, unless an army is attacking you, which is unlikely.


Just like an automatic weapon is not applicable in self-defence then? Unless an army is attacking you, which is unlikely?

Guns are intended to KILL.
To say that they are a deterrent is nonsense. They are much less of a deterrent than, say, a nuclear weapon, and likewise they are not under the control of a responsible government like a nuclear weapon (in the case of the Western nations) is. Individual people are unpredictable. I wouldn't feel safe if the perfectly sane guy down the road had a gun. There is a chance that under some kind of emotional stress he would commit a crime of passion or go mad and shoot someone.
Anyway - more on guns being a useless deterrent: The majority of burglars in the USA (because of your gun control) will carry some kind of weapon - probably a firearm of some sort. You also own a firearm. The outcome - bloody violence. One of you is going to get hurt because each of you have confidence that you're going to get your shot away first. So - that also negates the firearm's effect as a deterrent.

Back to the concept of not feeling safe if you know the guy down the road owns a gun... Well - you're going to buy a gun too if he's got one and you don't feel safe because of that fact, aren't you?
There lies a vicious circle in which everyone buys a gun because they're scared of everyone else. You shouldn't have to feel the need to own a gun because others do.

Lastly, I don't think that anything whatsoever will be done about gun control in the US unless the rest of the world invades the country; tears up the ridiculously outdated constitution; rewrites it for a modern society; confiscates all handguns and automatics; melts them down and then slaps the gun owners silly. That way:

- Nobody owns a gun.
- The constitution says people shouldn't own a gun.
- Therefore no civilian feels that they must own a gun.
- Case closed.

Unfortunately, this just isn't going to happen. Besides, Americans, being of a more violent culture than modern Europeans (Americans actually have a culture remarkably similar to 17th/18th Century Europeans), won't usually miss the opportunity to get their hands on something powerful that can control life or death.

Try not to take offence to my rather blunt way of putting things. :rolleyes:

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