The Student Room Group

Dr Bawa-Garba's conviction of manslaughter and de-registration

This is truly shocking news.

Discuss.
Dr Chris Day puts it better than I ever could
http://www.54000doctors.org/blogs/whos-interests-are-the-gmc-really-trying-to-serve-in-the-bawa-garba-case.html

Horrifying and likely to change medical practice and not for the better.
The poor woman was scapegoated for the system's failings, yet the family see her as the reason for their son's death. I suspect that's how the general public see it too.
Reply 4
Original post by Ink_blot
The poor woman was scapegoated for the system's failings, yet the family see her as the reason for their son's death. I suspect that's how the general public see it too.


The Telegraph also paints the same picture.
Original post by 06moca1
The Telegraph also paints the same picture.


And the BBC. And the Metro. Any everywhere else.

As has been said elsewhere, the most remarkable thing here is how literally everywhere just brushes over the critical under staffing issues that day. The nurse was even more harshly treated, if anything.

Raises the huge question of what to do if you are asked to help on an understaffed shift. Should you refuse to work in case you are blamed for not managing every case as if there were four of you?
Reply 6
Original post by nexttime
And the BBC. And the Metro. Any everywhere else.

As has been said elsewhere, the most remarkable thing here is how literally everywhere just brushes over the critical under staffing issues that day. The nurse was even more harshly treated, if anything.

Raises the huge question of what to do if you are asked to help on an understaffed shift. Should you refuse to work in case you are blamed for not managing every case as if there were four of you?


Good point. I just think that the GMC is shooting itself in the foot. I was looking at their facebook page and they were congratulating recently graduating medical students from Exeter and it seems ironic.
Just read into it from several sides. Disgustingly scapegoated.
Reply 8
Original post by SophieSmall
Just read into it from several sides. Disgustingly scapegoated.


Agreed. As a person who is applying to medical school as a graduate, I am seriously concerned as this situation can happen to anyone working on the NHS. I'm curious to see if this case will make it easier for further manslaughter charges and de-registration. If so, will this affect doctor resignations and medical school applications?
Reply 9
As an NHS employee, I see daily how badly the NHS is struggling with the high demands placed upon it, and the impact that lack of funding, resource and staffing has on our ability to provide the best level of patient care. I see my F1/F2 colleagues left on their own at times with little support; juggling between dealing with critical cases, patient follow-ups and planning for discharges. There just isn't enough time in a day to do everything, and I often see them working unsociable unpaid hours just to get the work done for that day. It seems almost as a box-ticking exercise in ensuring the bare-minimum is done to ensure patients are safe from immediate harm. The glaring reality is that we're all human; we all have limits, and we get tired - this is when mistakes unfortunately happen. This goes for my nursing and pharmacy colleagues too!

I completed my rotation within the Elderly Care ward last month and it was absolutely disgusting how we had only 2 nurses and 2 HCA's in most afternoons looking after a ward of 25 patients; some of whom were on their last days of life! We had confused elderly patients wandering around, patients whom wanted help to the toilets, patients whom needed to be seen by doctors due to new issues, family members wanting clarity - but no staff to help! Even I've had to provide pharmaceutical cover for up to 4 wards alone during the Christmas period (whilst of ill-health and no lunch breaks) due to there being no staff. There are many things that hinder my ability practice effectively whilst on the wards - and this is largely down to lack of funding; not to mention the constant I.T and POD system failures!

Also, even as a hospital pharmacist, I've questioned when certain patients have been deemed 'medically fit for discharge' since their clinical profile and [lack of] pharmaceutical management says otherwise. This then leads to the issues of bed pressure with only the most 'ill' patients taking priority, and also bed management teams whom are on a constant war-path and whose only priority is to get patients out ASAP.

Sorry if my comment is irrelevant, but there is just so much that the public don't get to see! This news just made me sick.
Utterly appalling.
Reply 11
Original post by Jin3011
As an NHS employee, I see daily how badly the NHS is struggling with the high demands placed upon it, and the impact that lack of funding, resource and staffing has on our ability to provide the best level of patient care. I see my F1/F2 colleagues left on their own at times with little support; juggling between dealing with critical cases, patient follow-ups and planning for discharges. There just isn't enough time in a day to do everything, and I often see them working unsociable unpaid hours just to get the work done for that day. It seems almost as a box-ticking exercise in ensuring the bare-minimum is done to ensure patients are safe from immediate harm. The glaring reality is that we're all human; we all have limits, and we get tired - this is when mistakes unfortunately happen. This goes for my nursing and pharmacy colleagues too!

I completed my rotation within the Elderly Care ward last month and it was absolutely disgusting how we had only 2 nurses and 2 HCA's in most afternoons looking after a ward of 25 patients; some of whom were on their last days of life! We had confused elderly patients wandering around, patients whom wanted help to the toilets, patients whom needed to be seen by doctors due to new issues, family members wanting clarity - but no staff to help! Even I've had to provide pharmaceutical cover for up to 4 wards alone during the Christmas period (whilst of ill-health and no lunch breaks) due to there being no staff. There are many things that hinder my ability practice effectively whilst on the wards - and this is largely down to lack of funding; not to mention the constant I.T and POD system failures!

Also, even as a hospital pharmacist, I've questioned when certain patients have been deemed 'medically fit for discharge' since their clinical profile and [lack of] pharmaceutical management says otherwise. This then leads to the issues of bed pressure with only the most 'ill' patients taking priority, and also bed management teams whom are on a constant war-path and whose only priority is to get patients out ASAP.

Sorry if my comment is irrelevant, but there is just so much that the public don't get to see! This news just made me sick.


Thank you for the insight. I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel all honestly. The Government, Courts, GMC, and certain patients are against healthcare staff. Tragically, healthcare staff has no power to change things because the higher up will wag their fingers if you try and protest. The only way I see things turning around is if there is mass resignations since no one can try and de-register you for 'walking out'. I'm hoping Dr Bawa-Garba can appeal both the manslaughter charges and the de-registration, somehow.
Reviving the thread! I'm interested to hear everyone's input!
Reply 13
There was a BMJ article about this case. It highlights a possibility of racial influence in the case. Apparently, BME doctors are more likely to be convicted as compared to white counterparts. The article also highlights the consultant who was leading the team that day, who happens to be white, not suffering any consequences.
I have to admit it's seems fishy that the consultant was not punished for not checking up on the boy after Dr Bawa-Garba told him of the results.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by 06moca1
There was a BMJ article about this case. It highlights a possibility of racial influence in the case. Apparently, BME doctors are more likely to be convicted as compared to white counterparts. The article also highlights the consultant who was leading the team that day, who happens to be white, not suffering any consequences.
I have to admit it's seems fishy that the consultant was not punished for not checking up on the boy after Dr Bawa-Garba told him of the results.


There should have been some further questioning of the consultants actions as he said that she should have stressed the results more to him - when he’s the one that should be overseeing her.

There are more systematic failings in this case though, that the trust clearly can’t be bothered to address. Why did they not organise cover for the registrar who was on study leave? Why did they allow an adult trained nurse to work on a paediatric unit? Why did no one ask to see the DNACPR form when Dr Bawa-Garba wanted to stop resuscitation?
I also think negligence should be definied within the situation. If everything else was running smoothly that day, then yes it would be negligent. But negligence is often defined by what a jury of your peers would do in the same situation, but in this case I find it hard to believe that anyone could have done much better.
Original post by Jin3011
As an NHS employee, I see daily how badly the NHS is struggling with the high demands placed upon it, and the impact that lack of funding, resource and staffing has on our ability to provide the best level of patient care. I see my F1/F2 colleagues left on their own at times with little support; juggling between dealing with critical cases, patient follow-ups and planning for discharges. There just isn't enough time in a day to do everything, and I often see them working unsociable unpaid hours just to get the work done for that day. It seems almost as a box-ticking exercise in ensuring the bare-minimum is done to ensure patients are safe from immediate harm. The glaring reality is that we're all human; we all have limits, and we get tired - this is when mistakes unfortunately happen. This goes for my nursing and pharmacy colleagues too!

I completed my rotation within the Elderly Care ward last month and it was absolutely disgusting how we had only 2 nurses and 2 HCA's in most afternoons looking after a ward of 25 patients; some of whom were on their last days of life! We had confused elderly patients wandering around, patients whom wanted help to the toilets, patients whom needed to be seen by doctors due to new issues, family members wanting clarity - but no staff to help! Even I've had to provide pharmaceutical cover for up to 4 wards alone during the Christmas period (whilst of ill-health and no lunch breaks) due to there being no staff. There are many things that hinder my ability practice effectively whilst on the wards - and this is largely down to lack of funding; not to mention the constant I.T and POD system failures!

Also, even as a hospital pharmacist, I've questioned when certain patients have been deemed 'medically fit for discharge' since their clinical profile and [lack of] pharmaceutical management says otherwise. This then leads to the issues of bed pressure with only the most 'ill' patients taking priority, and also bed management teams whom are on a constant war-path and whose only priority is to get patients out ASAP.

Sorry if my comment is irrelevant, but there is just so much that the public don't get to see! This news just made me sick.


Been working in a hospital for some time, and I could not have worded this better. I too had to 'fill in' on those colleagues that could not attend, as well as having the hospital a manic at times.

There is simply too much pressure on Nurses and other HCA that one cannot finish everything in one day put simply. Theres so much to do, in such an environment and with the current cuts it just makes the situation worse rather then better. To give adequate care to patients is the ultimate goal but on our side we are being restricted, with resources and less staff being employed.

Let's just hope the NHS, rises above and beyond soon before its too late.
Reply 17
Original post by ForestCat
I also think negligence should be definied within the situation. If everything else was running smoothly that day, then yes it would be negligent. But negligence is often defined by what a jury of your peers would do in the same situation, but in this case I find it hard to believe that anyone could have done much better.


I agree. I remember reading some comments on facebook and a few people have a rigid view of what negligence is. In fact, members of the public fail to see the complexity of the case and just views the whole case as a doctor who didn't do her job which killed a little boy. The definition of negligence won't change unless the public has better critical thinking skills.

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