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M3: newtons law of gravitation

how would I do a?

I see: F=K/x2 F = K/x^2

but I dont see: F=K/x2 F = - K/x^2
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 1
Original post by Maths&physics
how would I do a?

I see: F=K/x2 F = K/x^2

but I dont see: F=K/x2 F = - K/x^2


You know that the gravitational force on P at the surface of the Earth is mg. If you also know that this force is proprtional to 1/x2, then you know that mg = k/x2 for some k when x = R (that is, when you're at the surface of the Earth). So using this - what is k?
Original post by Maths&physics
how would I do a?


"The magnitude of this force is inversely proportional to x2x^2"

...so P1x2P \propto \dfrac{1}{x^2} hence P=kx2P= \dfrac{k}{x^2} hence ma=kx2ma=\dfrac{k}{x^2}.

Now use the fact that "At the surface of the Earth the acceleration due to gravity is gg. The Earth is modelled as a sphere of radius RR" to determine kk.
Reply 3
Original post by Maths&amp
how would I do a?

I see: F=K/x2 F = K/x^2

but I dont see: F=K/x2 F = - K/x^2


All the questions on gravity I’ve seen start like this, so when u learn this it will be an easy 3 marks.👊🏾
Reply 4
Oh that's wierd, your post changed while I was replying!

Is your only issue the negative sign (or lack thereof)? If so, that's not really important here - it only helps to clarify the direction of the force, its magnitude will be the same, and that's all that they are asking about.
Original post by Pangol
Oh that's wierd, your post changed while I was replying!

Is your only issue the negative sign (or lack thereof)? If so, that's not really important here - it only helps to clarify the direction of the force, its magnitude will be the same, and that's all that they are asking about.


why is it negative anyway?

thats the diagram I drew.
Reply 6
Original post by Maths&physics
why is it negative anyway?


Really, don't worry about this part. But the idea is that if you take x as a vector pointint out from the centre of the Earth towards the object, then the force has to act the other way, thus the negative sign.
Original post by Pangol
Really, don't worry about this part. But the idea is that if you take x as a vector pointint out from the centre of the Earth towards the object, then the force has to act the other way, thus the negative sign.


whats going on here? F = -K/x^2

but what is mg = -k/R^2?
Reply 8
Original post by Maths&physics
whats going on here? F = -K/x^2

but what is mg = -k/R^2?

They are just saying that if the negative sign has been included in the working, then the method marks can still be scored. Pieces in brackets may or may not be seen in the working, and it doesn't matter if they are there or not for the marks to be awarded.
Original post by Pangol
They are just saying that if the negative sign has been included in the working, then the method marks can still be scored. Pieces in brackets may or may not be seen in the working, and it doesn't matter if they are there or not for the marks to be awarded.


ok, but whats: mg = -k/R^2?
Reply 10
Original post by Maths&physics
ok, but whats: mg = -k/R^2?


It's what you get from the previous line when you use F = mg and x = R (that is, the weight of the object at the surface of the Earth).
Original post by Pangol
It's what you get from the previous line when you use F = mg and x = R (that is, the weight of the object at the surface of the Earth).


why do we want the weight of the object at the surface of the earth?
Reply 12
Original post by Maths&physics
why do we want the weight of the object at the surface of the earth?

The "F" in the previous line is the gravitational force on the object, that is, it's weight. So when x = R (we are at the surface of the Earth), F = mg (what you would normally use for weight at the surface of the Earth).
Original post by Pangol
The "F" in the previous line is the gravitational force on the object, that is, it's weight. So when x = R (we are at the surface of the Earth), F = mg (what you would normally use for weight at the surface of the Earth).


that frustrated the **** out of me but I think ive finally got it.
Original post by Pangol
The "F" in the previous line is the gravitational force on the object, that is, it's weight. So when x = R (we are at the surface of the Earth), F = mg (what you would normally use for weight at the surface of the Earth).


Original post by Shaanv
All the questions on gravity I’ve seen start like this, so when u learn this it will be an easy 3 marks.👊🏾


Original post by RDKGames
"The magnitude of this force is inversely proportional to x2x^2"

...so P1x2P \propto \dfrac{1}{x^2} hence P=kx2P= \dfrac{k}{x^2} hence ma=kx2ma=\dfrac{k}{x^2}.

Now use the fact that "At the surface of the Earth the acceleration due to gravity is gg. The Earth is modelled as a sphere of radius RR" to determine kk.


how would I do b? thanks

why wouldn't I treat this as a projectile and use Suvat? and why have they used double dot instead of a normal a in the mark scheme?
Reply 15
Original post by Maths&physics
why wouldn't I treat this as a projectile and use Suvat? and why have they used double dot instead of a normal a in the mark scheme?

You can't use suvat equations because the acceleration (due to gravity) is no longer constant. You are moving far enough above the surface of the Earth to notice the difference in the value of g. They've used the double dot notation to emphasise that acceleration is the second time derivative of displacement, and probably to make is clear that it is not a constant.
Original post by Maths&physics
how would I do b? thanks

why wouldn't I treat this as a projectile and use Suvat? and why have they used double dot instead of a normal a in the mark scheme?


Because the force is variable (depends on the displacement!) so the acceleration is not constant, hence you cannot use SUVAT.
For the second point, x¨=d2xdt2\ddot{x} = \dfrac{d^2 x}{dt^2} is the alternative and more widely used notation in mechanics when dealing with ODE's involving displacement, velocity, and acceleration. It doesn't make any difference which you use.

So then, you have that mx¨=mgR2x2    vdvdx=gR21x2m\ddot{x} = - \dfrac{mgR^2}{x^2} \implies v\dfrac{dv}{dx} = -gR^2 \cdot \dfrac{1}{x^2} and you want to find the expression for v(x)v(x).
Then you wish to use the info they tell you; you got v(R)=3Uv(R)=3U, and you got v(2R)=Uv(2R)=U, to derive UU in terms of R,gR,g
(edited 6 years ago)

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