how does one say "penchant" and "homage"? Watch

Segat1
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#81
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#81
(Original post by halátnost)
As do I like to pronounce things correctly...and yeah that is pretty funny...(tbh, I can't see how she got the Dwar sound from those combination of letters!)...just your initial post was a little irate. Besides, some pronunciations are ambiguous, and X, Y and Z won't pronounce them all exactly the same. This doesn't bother me, as long as you can understand what they are saying. Although I appreciate the effort you go to.
Irate - perhaps. I see what you mean. I just get very passionate about language and the nugat thing made me lol (sorry to whoever said that).
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</gibberish>
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(Original post by Segat1)
If you don't feel comfy then say "I'm really into trains" or "I'm really interested in trains" or "He has a fetish for fatties". Also, say "I'm paying tribute to..." instead of homage.
You mean penchant
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Segat1
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#83
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(Original post by ChrisRH)
You mean penchant
? Homage means to pay tribute to. Penchant means you have an interest in or facination with sth
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xxxchrisxxx
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Segat1)
Well, I spend a lot of time presenting to large groups of people in a corporate environment, and I think it's worth finding out how to pronounce words correctly, especially considering the audience. If I say a word in an American way e.g. router which they tend to say as "rowter" rather than "rooter" which is preferred in the UK, to a UK audience, then it tends to get people's backs up, and alienates you from the audience.

There's pronounciation guides in the OED, on websites (careful - as someone pointed out, they're often American based e.g. neutron - nootrawn) and just asking someone. Additionally, where we borrow from a language where there isn't a equivalent in English then it makes sense to say that word in its original language where possible. E.g. Schadenfreude is a brilliant word, and if someone said to me "shaddenfrood" then I'd be wondering what the hell you were talking about.

ponchon
oh-mage
noo-gar

I also say double-entendre as dooble-ontondre not dubble entondrah.

This reminds me of laughing at the idiots on the train in Germany when they announced they were about an hour out of "Munchin" i.e. München. Brill

i also recall trying to understand what a furniture sales man meant by a chase lounge. I figured out he mean chaise longue - utter ********.

I also nearly bought perfume with my mum from a girl in a shop calling Christian Dior "Christian Dwar". It's now a family joke.

So yeah, I'm of the opinion that you should pronouce the word properly. Otherwise I'm just gonna laugh at you. Do some research, people!


http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/homage?view=uk

homage

/hommij/

• noun honour or respect shown publicly.

— ORIGIN Old French, from Latin homo ‘man’; in medieval times the word denoted the ceremony by which a vassal declared himself to be his feudal lord’s ‘man’.


i dont care if people want to overpronunciate. its them thinking they are given a licence to mock others (and apparently telling people to do more "research") for not following their way of thinking that pisses me off, especially when they're in the wrong.
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naivesincerity
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#85
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Ponshon and Omaage.
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naivesincerity
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(Original post by Segat1)
? Homage means to pay tribute to.
I thought it meant a tribute.
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Kolya
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#87
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(Original post by Segat1)
There's pronounciation guides in the OED, on websites (careful - as someone pointed out, they're often American based e.g. neutron - nootrawn) and just asking someone.
The OED defines words and gives one of two possible pronunciations; there is no such concept as a proper pronunciation. There are a range of different British English accents and the OED does not (and cannot) attempt to cover them all.
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Hylean
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(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/homage?view=uk

homage

/hommij/

• noun honour or respect shown publicly.

— ORIGIN Old French, from Latin homo ‘man’; in medieval times the word denoted the ceremony by which a vassal declared himself to be his feudal lord’s ‘man’.


i dont care if people want to overpronunciate. its them thinking they are given a licence to mock others (and apparently telling people to do more "research") for not following their way of thinking that pisses me off, especially when they're in the wrong.
Not sure if it was in this thread that I mentioned this, but the OED is a guide, not an authority. Thus you cannot use it to prove your point to 100%.
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Segat1
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(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/homage?view=uk
homage
/hommij/
• noun honour or respect shown publicly.
— ORIGIN Old French, from Latin homo ‘man’; in medieval times the word denoted the ceremony by which a vassal declared himself to be his feudal lord’s ‘man’.
I dont care if people want to overpronunciate. its them thinking they are given a licence to mock others (and apparently telling people to do more "research") for not following their way of thinking that pisses me off, especially when they're in the wrong.
Steady on, there's no need for that. I'm not "in the wrong" as you put it. My Longman Dictionary of Pronounciation suggests two different pronounciations, namely om-mage and hom-mage. I don't have my Oxford Dic of Pronounciation one here with me atm and I'd rather refer to a book than that off the web.

(Original post by naivesincerity)
I thought it meant a tribute.
Indeed it does.


As I have said, I (and my company for that matter) prefer to use the word in the style of the language of its derivation. We have a Style Guide which is full of stuff like this. Homage with a hard H sounds strange to me and the audience to which I communicate with certainly don't say hom-mij or pen-chant.

(Original post by Lusus Naturae)
The OED defines words and gives one of two possible pronunciations; there is no such concept as a proper pronunciation. There are a range of different British English accents and the OED does not (and cannot) attempt to cover them all.
Yup, I take your point. However we can agree that you say tree with a tr and an ee sound with the guide of the IPA. Hence, pronounciation guides assist greatly.
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xxxchrisxxx
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#90
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(Original post by Hylean)
Not sure if it was in this thread that I mentioned this, but the OED is a guide, not an authority. Thus you cannot use it to prove your point to 100%.
whats the point of having a guide, from a rather respected source if i may add, if you're going to do it the way you THINK it ought to be.


what's your justification for pronouncing it the french way then? because they had french roots? they may have been derived from french but they're not french in themselves. the dictionary said it was old french, so the french may not even use it anymore, hence no "properly french" contemporary pronounciation to compare it to.
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Llamaaa
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so do you chaps pronounce paella pie-ella or pa-eya? Is Chile chilly, or chee-lay? SAN-gria, or sangRIa? out of interest
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shyopstv
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#92
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(Original post by miss_world)
I'd say hom-ij and pen-shant rather than om-aje or ponshon. Pronouncing it the latter way just smacks of pretention. We've borrowed many words from french and for the most part we don't pronounce them in the french way (with the exception of niche, cliché etc) so it's perfectly natural to anglicise them.
Why is it pretentious to say those two words in the French way and not, for example, chassis. Am I not allowed to laugh/despair at anyone who tries to anglicise that word? Or if you were trying to show how non-pretentious you are with your anglicised pronounciation of fromage frais.
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Jake22
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#93
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The thing is, to pronounce these words in their normal form, you don't have to adopt a french accent at all. You can say "Pon-shon" and "Home-arge" in your normal English accent.

To me it sounds wierder when people purposely try to Anglicise words as much as possible to avoid sounding 'pretentious' e.g. saying "Jen-ruh" for genre etc.

I think the same applies with spanish words e.g. Jalepenos, Fajita etc. I tend to go for a comprimise with those pronouncing them as "Halapenos" and "Faheetas" respectively (avoiding the rolled h sound)

Me and some friends often pronounce these type of words (french and spanish) in an overly anglicised way but that is more taking the mickey out of one of us who notoriously does this on purpose.
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Alasdair
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#94
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I think you pay hommij, in an 'omaage...
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Kolya
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(Original post by Segat1)
However we can agree that you say tree with a tr and an ee sound with the guide of the IPA. Hence, pronounciation guides assist greatly.
No, we do not agree. I could pronounce tree as "tray". Where is the "ee" sound there?
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Crosseyed And Painless
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I say nug-gat for nougat and pen-chant for penchant. I've never heard anyone say pon-shon, and it was only last year I heard someone say noo-gar.

Homage I pronounce (h)o-mahj, as that's how I heard it in my formative years, but (h)o-midge doesn't sound wrong to my ears. Likewise keen-wah for quinoa, although I'll admit kwin-noah occasionally irritates.


so do you chaps pronounce paella pie-ella or pa-eya? Is Chile chilly, or chee-lay? SAN-gria, or sangRIa? out of interest
Pa-eya, chilly, and having said SAN-gria and sangRIa out load a few times, I can't seem to make them sound different to one another, so both?
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Kyle_S-C
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(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
whats the point of having a guide, from a rather respected source if i may add, if you're going to do it the way you THINK it ought to be.


what's your justification for pronouncing it the french way then? because they had french roots? they may have been derived from french but they're not french in themselves. the dictionary said it was old french, so the french may not even use it anymore, hence no "properly french" contemporary pronounciation to compare it to.
The whole point in the OED is that it's meant to be a catalogue of words used in the English language. Hence if there are multiple commonly accepted pronunciations of a word, a few will probably be listed. They also add words as they enter common parlance, like words that have developed with the advent of the internet. The OED is correct, but it isn't exhaustive.
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Segat1
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(Original post by Lusus Naturae)
No, we do not agree. I could pronounce tree as "tray". Where is the "ee" sound there?
Well, you could, but using the IPA it's clear: 'triː- the " ' " before the tr means the syllable is stressed and the "iː" means the vowel is a long one.
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Joanna May
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(Original post by xxxchrisxxx)
you'd mock someone who says "pen-shent" just because you've never heard of it? you sound like a upperclass wannabe hillbilly snob. an ignorant one at that as well.

edit: i may have touched some major posh-wannabe-knowitall-17yrolds nerves with this post. brilliant.
No, I'd mock someone who said "pen-shent" because they were wrong.

People who use words like 'homage' or 'penchant' tend to do so to make themselves sound more intelligent than they are. If they're going to do so, and pronounce them wrong to boot, then yes, I will mock them. People who use the word in a normal manner, know how to pronounce it.
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SilverWings
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(Original post by Profesh)
You might as well have asked whether we say 'house' or 'toilet', for how ambiguous that was.

'Nougat' is pronounced 'noo-gaa'; 'nugget' is pronounced 'nuh-gut'. Conflating the two would be imbecilic: they're not even homophones, let alone homonyms.
My sisters had a 'nugget crisis' in the kitchen last week. When I ran through to help them, and found Nougat, I told them I wouldn't help them until they 'said it properly' - they obviously didn't know what I meant because for the first minute or so they were shouting "NUGGIT" "NUGGAT" "NUGGOT" - I just screamed 'noo-gaa' at them and they looked so puzzled, bless them.

They know how to say it now though. :proud:
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