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Reply 100
Natural selection no longer applies in the human race. Whether this is a good or bad thing, we will see.
Reply 101
I'm not voting because I don't see why it's necessary to increase our chances of survival, have we not overpopulated the world already?
Reply 102
Paxdax
If both parents have brown eyes, then it remains so. Haven't you studied basic biology?

You're wrong. If both parents have an allele for blue eyes and an allele for brown eyes they will have brown eyes as the allele for brown eyes is the dominant one. So, if they both pass down their allele for blue eyes to their child then the child will have blue eyes.
From your other posts it also sounds as if you don't understand evolution at all.
The whole eugenics debate tends to miss one huge point, all morals aside eugenics is bad because it reduces diversity and genetically speaking diversity is very good. Species that lose diversity tend to get into situations where they very much wish they had it back.


Btw m4n0ran natural selection still affects the human race, admittedly a lot of modern technologies reduce selection pressures but then for meerkats living in a pack reduces selection pressures and you don't say natural selection doesn't apply to them.
Captain Crash
And that's why I wouldn't leave this to the free market of the general populace. If the market's stupid to pick blu-ray over it's superior competitors just because it sounds cooler, I don't want in command of what characteristics make it to the next generation.
Wait, so you don't want parents to have a say over their children's future because they're too stupid to know what's in the long-term interests of the human race? Have you any idea how illiberal that is?

You've pounced on the words "free market" as though I'm proposing privatisation of the human genome. Nothing of the sort. All that is being suggested is the free choice of couples to select what they consider the best possible combination of their genes. Where's the objectionable part to that?
DrunkHamster
This is almost certainly true; but there's a subtle difference between saying this and saying "Indeed many advances in physics and maths are due only to autism..." which I think is almost certainly false.

Edit: interestingly enough, I think that savants (who are, say, exceptional at calculation) tend not to have particularly great abstract reasoning skills.


Admittedly my wording could have been better. Perhaps 'Many advances in physics and maths owe themselves somewhat to autism' would be better.

With regards to savants - indeed that is true. They may have amazing memory or calculation skill but ******ation elsewhere. However most autists are predominantly of the non-savant kind.

Edit: dunno why they blocked that - Ret@rdation is a technical term :s:

Agent Smith
Wait, so you don't want parents to have a say over their children's future because they're too stupid to know what's in the long-term interests of the human race? Have you any idea how illiberal that is?

You've pounced on the words "free market" as though I'm proposing privatisation of the human genome. Nothing of the sort. All that is being suggested is the free choice of couples to select what they consider the best possible combination of their genes. Where's the objectionable part to that?


You misunderstand me. My issue isn't with privatisation rather that given free rein, individuals will choose characteristics that are fads and narcissistic and away from ones that may be beneficial but the the parents don't recognise it as such (e.g. autism). I raised Blu-Ray because people voted with their feet and chose an irrational choice. Frankly I wouldn't anyone do potentially the same with the human race.

I'm not calling people stupid - just that they make irrational choices based on the individuals imperfect view of what a perfect child should be. I wouldn't trust myself with that choice either. As Nef said, even on the basis that it reduces genetic diversity eugenics is bad.

And this isn't illiberal - unless you're implying that parents have ownership over their child as they would a car?
Captain Crash
And this isn't illiberal - unless you're implying that parents have ownership over their child as they would a car?
They shouldn't, but in our society they do, or might as well. Children and the young are treated as a combination of pets and possessions, and society accepts this without question. If you, like me, disapprove of this situation, then you have an unbelievably large hill to climb.

Here, of course, we're talking about embryos, not children, so the issue is a little different.* It's a thorny issue, but I'll say this much: While I have problems with the idea of "owning" your own conceptual offspring (as distinct from the zygotes, whose ownership is self-evident), if it's not the parent's right then whose is it? Their claim to the right to make that judgement is highly flawed, but it's the best one there is.


*And don't you forget it! :wink:
Agent Smith
They shouldn't, but in our society they do, or might as well. Children and the young are treated as a combination of pets and possessions, and society accepts this without question. If you, like me, disapprove of this situation, then you have an unbelievably large hill to climb.

Sociologically this may be the case, but legally children are at most in custody of their parents, never owned.
Agent Smith

Here, of course, we're talking about embryos, not children, so the issue is a little different.* It's a thorny issue, but I'll say this much: While I have problems with the idea of "owning" your own conceptual offspring (as distinct from the zygotes, whose ownership is self-evident), if it's not the parent's right then whose is it? Their claim to the right to make that judgement is highly flawed, but it's the best one there is.

Even if the embryo/zygote is considered a mere piece of property, any manipulation of it (IVF, Abortion etc) still requires expressed approval of a doctor. If they don't allow free reign of a parent to do as they wish, why should it be the same for designer babies?

Of course I'd argue (:p: )that an embryo can never be reduced to a mere object, if only on what it can potentially be, which would render the point moot.
Agent Smith


*And don't you forget it! :wink:

:rolleyes:
Captain Crash
Even if the embryo/zygote is considered a mere piece of property, any manipulation of it (IVF, Abortion etc) still requires expressed approval of a doctor. If they don't allow free reign of a parent to do as they wish, why should it be the same for designer babies?
Very true. I think I was taking the requirement for a doctor's advice and consent as a given, to be honest, although I never made it explicit and got a bit carried away with the whole freedom thing. The alternative would be like giving random yokels control of nuclear missiles; sure, they could make choices, and they would be free choices, but they wouldn't be informed one, and they would thus risk being damaging and dangerous.

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