This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- how much do oxbridge care about gcses
- Oxbridge admissions process - which one cares most about GCSEs?
- Reapplication dilemma
- Are interview prep day from companies like Oxbridge Applications worth the money?
- Will my 6s disadvantage me in any way for Imperial EEE?
- UCL reputation in uk
- Oxford Biochemistry / Biology
- Should I re apply?
- Oxbridge Admissions
- Cancelling UCAS early application and re-applying
- Admission Form into Havilla University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Claretian University of Nigeria 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utm
- Admission Form into Pan-Atlantic University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Jewel University, Gombe state 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme
- Admission Form intoCollege of Petroleum and Energy Studies, Kaduna State 2023/(2024)
- Admission Form into Topfaith University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Thomas Adewumi University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Al-Istiqama University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Mudiame University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Maranathan University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
Do you have faith in the Oxbridge Admissions Process
Scroll to see replies
Two important facts that haven't been mentioned here:
the criteria for getting onto any Sutton Trust Summer School are miles away from the criteria for being offered a place in Oxford to study - the former is an access scheme and most of its criteria aren't academic or minimally so.
yes, Oxford and Cambridge target certain types of schools and colleges, certain regions, certain classes and demographics, spend a lot of money and time doing so, and is right to do so, but nobody's making any promises or looking to keep any quotas. They want the people applying to them to represent the national spread, and would hate it if any aspect of Oxbridge's reputation put them off.
But they won't stop trying to judge meritocratically.
And being human they won't stop making mistakes, which may have been done here. But have you asked for your test score or interview reports?
the criteria for getting onto any Sutton Trust Summer School are miles away from the criteria for being offered a place in Oxford to study - the former is an access scheme and most of its criteria aren't academic or minimally so.
yes, Oxford and Cambridge target certain types of schools and colleges, certain regions, certain classes and demographics, spend a lot of money and time doing so, and is right to do so, but nobody's making any promises or looking to keep any quotas. They want the people applying to them to represent the national spread, and would hate it if any aspect of Oxbridge's reputation put them off.
But they won't stop trying to judge meritocratically.
And being human they won't stop making mistakes, which may have been done here. But have you asked for your test score or interview reports?
Nyeh. I'm not getting involved - my main issue was with the way that Nima slagged off someone he recently called a friend. But if that's how you treat friends, fine by me.
*disappears*
*disappears*
stephx
anyway i reapplied this year and my second interview was terrible. i was completely shocked by one question, i know he was just trying to test my response to new materia but under that kind of pressure i couldnt think straight and needed prompting all the way along. i think i came across as totally unresponsive, as if i wasn't trying. my slowness totally frustrated the guy.
It's good that you know that you're not great under pressure because now you can try and train yourself to be better at pressure situations for the future
Go make yourself a bigger, badder stephx! deianra
Nyeh. I'm not getting involved - my main issue was with the way that Nima slagged off someone he recently called a friend. But if that's how you treat friends, fine by me.
*disappears*
*disappears*
all she sed is that the person doesnt deserve it as much as her/him....which is probably true
Thirtysomething
(ISTR that the ratio of acceptances between different school types tracks the ratio of applications pretty closely -- can anyone confirm or deny with statistics?)
For 2003 entry at Cambridge University:
%ge of applicants receiving offers
Independent Schools - 32%
Comprehensive School - 23%
Sixth Form Colleges - 25%
%ge of applicants receiving offers
White - 28%
Non-white - 22%
[eg, Indian - 24%
[Black African - 18%
[Chinese - 29%
The real problem, recently highlighted by bodies such as the Sutton Trust, is the fact that good applicants from ethnic minorities and 'weaker' schools don't bother applying, principally because of myths they hear (which are perpetuated by bitter applicants who blame their failures on their gender, ethnicity or educational background).
shiny
It's good that you know that you're not great under pressure because now you can try and train yourself to be better at pressure situations for the future Go make yourself a bigger, badder stephx!
Go make yourself a bigger, badder stephx! well, it's not all pressure situations, i love maths exams
(am i weird? 
) its mainly interviews, meeting new people, presentations, that kind of thing. i've always been a shy person but towards the end of college i got better. in my mock interview this year my teachers were impressed by how much i'd changed. apparently, i gave full answers this time round where as last year, i said a few words and smiled apparently
i've also been working which has meant i've had to talk, (though alot of the time i don't cos the air conditioning causes my through to clog up. 
) but anyways, i didn't feel like the confidence thing was as much of an issue this year, to be honest i was more worried about forgetting the maths 
but the question that got me was not about remembering/preparing or using techniques that can get particularly rusty. i know i could have done it with a lot less prompting (but not none at all!
) in a more comfortable situation. colleges: last year Robinson this year Queens'
Look, people, cool it OK. 
Here goes, in I dive....
I think we have to understand Nima's position even if we don't entirely agree with it or the manner in which it is put forward. From what I can see Nima's interview was badly conducted and he has every right to be angry. I realise this is annoying some people but I don't think it is right to make assumptions on Nima's character from what are clearly emotionally charged posts. If I had been in the same position I can imagine coming to similar conclusions although I might have voiced them less aggressively than him. On the other hand, I don't think Nima's experience is typical. Nima clearly had a bad interview and deserves an explaination but this doesn't detract from the fact that in my and most other people's experience (whether they be accepted or rejected) is that the tutors are genuinely looking for the best candidate and cut no corners in doing so.
Nima, I would advise you to re-apply next year, if you think you are good enough to get in, it's what I would have done in your situation. Oh,and cool it a bit OK (I know it's hard)
Here goes, in I dive....
I think we have to understand Nima's position even if we don't entirely agree with it or the manner in which it is put forward. From what I can see Nima's interview was badly conducted and he has every right to be angry. I realise this is annoying some people but I don't think it is right to make assumptions on Nima's character from what are clearly emotionally charged posts. If I had been in the same position I can imagine coming to similar conclusions although I might have voiced them less aggressively than him. On the other hand, I don't think Nima's experience is typical. Nima clearly had a bad interview and deserves an explaination but this doesn't detract from the fact that in my and most other people's experience (whether they be accepted or rejected) is that the tutors are genuinely looking for the best candidate and cut no corners in doing so.
Nima, I would advise you to re-apply next year, if you think you are good enough to get in, it's what I would have done in your situation. Oh,and cool it a bit OK
(I know it's hard)Nima
Cheers, I'll strongly consider it.
Don't do that! Bearing grudges for your entire lifetime is so much more...interesting.
If £10m and an ex-Soviet era suitcase nuke happens to come my way in the next few decades - University College Oxford is bearing the brunt of the blast.
mobb_theprequel
Don't do that! Bearing grudges for your entire lifetime is so much more...interesting.
If £10m and an ex-Soviet era suitcase nuke happens to come my way in the next few decades - University College Oxford is bearing the brunt of the blast.
If £10m and an ex-Soviet era suitcase nuke happens to come my way in the next few decades - University College Oxford is bearing the brunt of the blast.
Being from Georgia, one of the most corrupt countries in the world (consistently in the top 10) and an ex-Soviet state I'm sure I could help you there
But only if you promise that Corpus Christi doesn't get scratched (its gonna have to be a very small nuke, CCC is just down the road).aleko
Being from Georgia, one of the most corrupt countries in the world (consistently in the top 10) and an ex-Soviet state I'm sure I could help you there But only if you promise that Corpus Christi doesn't get scratched (its gonna have to be a very small nuke, CCC is just down the road).
But only if you promise that Corpus Christi doesn't get scratched (its gonna have to be a very small nuke, CCC is just down the road).You have my honest word that Corpus will escape totally unscathed.
I suppose I'll have to PM you the finer points of the park bench rendez-vous.
Was I treated fairly? Having received an offer from oxford after interview last december, i am inclined to say yes, but that's not to say that I think that the entire process is completely fair. I don't know about other subjects, but for maths I thought the maths test was fair enough - of course it was probably a little easier for those who were doing further maths (i only did single maths in my AS year, but the two or three months of further maths that i did at the start of my A2 year was pretty handy in the whole thing i have to say), but they know who has done further maths and take it into acount (otherwise I wouldn't have got in).
Speaking to other people on my course, however, I am under the impression that their interview questions were harder than mine, involving induction, which I'd never done. However, this may be because they had done AS further maths already, in which case it seems fair that they get a more advanced question so that they are equally stretched.
Coming from a state school, and seeing the large number of state-educated students at my college, I could be of the opinion that there is not as much bias against state schools as people suggest. However, I can only speak for what's going on in my college and I must add that it has a higher proportion of state-schoolers than other colleges (is this fair treatment or positive discrimination?).
All in all, I don't really have a real conclusion or answer, but there's an unorganised collection of my thoughts on how I was treated by Oxford
Speaking to other people on my course, however, I am under the impression that their interview questions were harder than mine, involving induction, which I'd never done. However, this may be because they had done AS further maths already, in which case it seems fair that they get a more advanced question so that they are equally stretched.
Coming from a state school, and seeing the large number of state-educated students at my college, I could be of the opinion that there is not as much bias against state schools as people suggest. However, I can only speak for what's going on in my college and I must add that it has a higher proportion of state-schoolers than other colleges (is this fair treatment or positive discrimination?).
All in all, I don't really have a real conclusion or answer, but there's an unorganised collection of my thoughts on how I was treated by Oxford
I get the feeling that, for a large proportion of applicants, Oxford admissions are more about playing the system [and pot luck] than anything else. My discontent fell largely into two categories: i) differences in college procedure, ii) lack of information.
1. Colleges:
I think that to suggest that the admissions arrangement at Oxford is 'nigh on flawless' is to spit in the face of the facts: applying to the various colleges is, in many respects, akin to applying to different universities altogether, so different are the admissions procedures at the respective colleges (in some instances). The acid test of a fair admissions system, to me, would be that a candidate worthy of admission to Oxford would not be shot in the foot [or given a leg up] by their choice of college: at present, I don't think that this happens.
At the present time, it is clear that attempts have been made to offset the unfairness surrounding applications to different colleges; however, [and it is interesting that H&E, first and foremost, mentions "equalising appslaces ratio as much as possible"] there appears to have been too much emphasis* placed on the numerical inequalities, rather than on other, similarly acute, inequalities. Second round interviews and pooling strike me as totally arbitrary devices – especially seeing as the college to which I applied implemented neither measure for all law applicants. This strikes me as pure laziness; and it is this kind of apathy towards well-intentioned systems which, perhaps, denied me and others Oxford places. The pool system isn't formalised and nor are the second round interviews - both appear to be discretionary, rather than procedural: this needs to change.
*In the light of the implementation of LNAT, HAT, BMAT etc. } all of which have contributed to a noticeable equalisation in the applicant/places ratio of the various colleges.
2. Lack of information:
Another major qualm that I have about the process is that interviewees are kept in the dark about the interview process (which seems to vary greatly between colleges, in some instances) - I was sent a pamphlet prior to interviews - and, frankly, it was a waste of paper. My interview was not at all as I envisioned it to be. I felt that there was insufficient material on the college website about the particular formalities of subject interviews, and that the information on the university website was too generic; by omitting details about particular college interviews, it almost presupposed that all college interviews would go along the same lines – which they didn’t.
As Tom Cooling has pointed out, the Oxford admissions arrangements, for Law at least, are coy:
Off at a slight tangent, I have heard some stories (one of which I know to be 100% genuine) about colleges issuing texts/exams etc. to be tested on/discussed at interview, which were distributed by a different college in the previous year(s) – and have found their way into the preparation material of applicants; only to come up in their interviews! This may be a rare occurrence, but it strikes me as appalling malpractice, as it gives some applicants a total advantage.
As has been mentioned already, a department-centric admissions system would appear to kill both birds with one stone - it would facilitate uniformity in the interview process; and it would also enable the pool, second round interviews and admissions literature (vis-a-vis the whole process: from interviews, to overall selection criteria) to be properly formalised.
I would dearly love to see a tabloid expose of the Oxford admissions system; perhaps along the lines of sending the same applicant (under different aliases) to multiple colleges, to receive variable treatment at interview, and a similarly fickle end outcome.
1. Colleges:
I think that to suggest that the admissions arrangement at Oxford is 'nigh on flawless' is to spit in the face of the facts: applying to the various colleges is, in many respects, akin to applying to different universities altogether, so different are the admissions procedures at the respective colleges (in some instances). The acid test of a fair admissions system, to me, would be that a candidate worthy of admission to Oxford would not be shot in the foot [or given a leg up] by their choice of college: at present, I don't think that this happens.
At the present time, it is clear that attempts have been made to offset the unfairness surrounding applications to different colleges; however, [and it is interesting that H&E, first and foremost, mentions "equalising apps
laces ratio as much as possible"] there appears to have been too much emphasis* placed on the numerical inequalities, rather than on other, similarly acute, inequalities. Second round interviews and pooling strike me as totally arbitrary devices – especially seeing as the college to which I applied implemented neither measure for all law applicants. This strikes me as pure laziness; and it is this kind of apathy towards well-intentioned systems which, perhaps, denied me and others Oxford places. The pool system isn't formalised and nor are the second round interviews - both appear to be discretionary, rather than procedural: this needs to change. *In the light of the implementation of LNAT, HAT, BMAT etc. } all of which have contributed to a noticeable equalisation in the applicant/places ratio of the various colleges.
2. Lack of information:
Another major qualm that I have about the process is that interviewees are kept in the dark about the interview process (which seems to vary greatly between colleges, in some instances) - I was sent a pamphlet prior to interviews - and, frankly, it was a waste of paper. My interview was not at all as I envisioned it to be. I felt that there was insufficient material on the college website about the particular formalities of subject interviews, and that the information on the university website was too generic; by omitting details about particular college interviews, it almost presupposed that all college interviews would go along the same lines – which they didn’t.
As Tom Cooling has pointed out, the Oxford admissions arrangements, for Law at least, are coy:
Tom Cooling
What I am arguing about is thus: if you go to www.law.bris.ac.uk you will find a very clear Admissions Statement which outlines how ALL applicants are assessed. I am not saying I think Oxford and Cambridge should have a format exactly the same, or even especially close. What I am saying, however, is that if you go to www.law.ox.ac.uk you will instead find a rather vague list of assessment criteria from which nothing concrete can be pinned. Such qualitative statements can be interpreted in a variety of ways [one of my teacher though it read like a SATs grade descriptor, for god's sake!], and this IMO means that hugely varied decisions are being made.
Off at a slight tangent, I have heard some stories (one of which I know to be 100% genuine) about colleges issuing texts/exams etc. to be tested on/discussed at interview, which were distributed by a different college in the previous year(s) – and have found their way into the preparation material of applicants; only to come up in their interviews! This may be a rare occurrence, but it strikes me as appalling malpractice, as it gives some applicants a total advantage.
…
As has been mentioned already, a department-centric admissions system would appear to kill both birds with one stone - it would facilitate uniformity in the interview process; and it would also enable the pool, second round interviews and admissions literature (vis-a-vis the whole process: from interviews, to overall selection criteria) to be properly formalised.
I would dearly love to see a tabloid expose of the Oxford admissions system; perhaps along the lines of sending the same applicant (under different aliases) to multiple colleges, to receive variable treatment at interview, and a similarly fickle end outcome.
mobb_theprequel
I would dearly love to see a tabloid expose of the Oxford admissions system; perhaps along the lines of sending the same applicant (under different aliases) to multiple colleges, to receive variable treatment at interview, and a similarly fickle end outcome.
I would dearly love to see a tabloid expose of the Oxford admissions system; perhaps along the lines of sending the same applicant (under different aliases) to multiple colleges, to receive variable treatment at interview, and a similarly fickle end outcome.
This wouldn't really work as an expose though, really, would it? People wouldn't know what to be disgusted about. All they can understand is "REJECTED WITH 7As!"
fishpaste
This wouldn't really work as an expose though, really, would it? People wouldn't know what to be disgusted about. All they can understand is "REJECTED WITH 7As!"
Okay, the main thrust of an expose (as I see it) would be to highlight the inequalities in the admissions system, as a result of it being college based: I think that if a good applicant had, say, five interviews (at different colleges) - the outcome would be different each time.
I agree though: it wouldn't really be in the public interest. Most people just want to see a blatant, self-explanatory scandal. And most people in this country don't understand/give two shits about the foibles of Oxbridge admissions.
I haven't read the whole thread so I'll dive in.
I really don't think that the interviews aren't meant to give you opportunities to shine like magic. You must create them. If you can't do that then you probably shouldn't be applying.
I'd done a lot of extra work in maths and I basically told them. I didn't wait to be asked. They just wanted to do maths problems with me to see what it would be like to teach me. So as well as doing some of their questions I also told them about some stuff I'd looked at and they listened and we extended my work further. You don't have to do their stuff. Just do stuff.
So for those of you complaining that you weren't given the opportunity to shine. You must've had some things you were good at. Why didn't you just tell them about that instead of sitting there like a wet mop and struggling with stuff that clearly wasn't your strongest point.
The only way you wouldn't have an opportunity to shine would be if you didn't go to the university at all.
I really don't think that the interviews aren't meant to give you opportunities to shine like magic. You must create them. If you can't do that then you probably shouldn't be applying.
I'd done a lot of extra work in maths and I basically told them. I didn't wait to be asked. They just wanted to do maths problems with me to see what it would be like to teach me. So as well as doing some of their questions I also told them about some stuff I'd looked at and they listened and we extended my work further. You don't have to do their stuff. Just do stuff.
So for those of you complaining that you weren't given the opportunity to shine. You must've had some things you were good at. Why didn't you just tell them about that instead of sitting there like a wet mop and struggling with stuff that clearly wasn't your strongest point.
The only way you wouldn't have an opportunity to shine would be if you didn't go to the university at all.
I don't see the point of comparing Oxbridge to Bristol at all. Bristol can obviously afford to lots of time on personal statements and references, neither of which are great devices, as they don't interview. Whilst an advantage of their points system is consistency and transparency the disadvantage is that it is a flawed system in itself and more to the point gives no indication of the candidate's aptitude for studying at universities like Oxford and Cambridge.
Yes the interview process is subjective and yes it varies from college to college but you don't always need to shine at interviews to get in - I certainly didn't. More written tests and essays are the way forward - personally I like it that some Cambridge colleges set the title. Whereas at Oxbridge some very able applicants slip through the net I would also say many other very able applicants who don't look so good on their UCAS forms get accepted and flourish - for example F. Poste and friends of mine who got rejected from Warwick, Bristol, LSE etc but into Oxbridge.
Yes the interview process is subjective and yes it varies from college to college but you don't always need to shine at interviews to get in - I certainly didn't. More written tests and essays are the way forward - personally I like it that some Cambridge colleges set the title. Whereas at Oxbridge some very able applicants slip through the net I would also say many other very able applicants who don't look so good on their UCAS forms get accepted and flourish - for example F. Poste and friends of mine who got rejected from Warwick, Bristol, LSE etc but into Oxbridge.
I can't agree with SsEe for a couple of reasons:
(i) Nima's issue seems to be that the interviews/test went well, and still he didn't get offered a place - though I can't see how it's possible for him to properly (rather than anecdotally) compare his interviews and test with other others.
(ii) Interviewers can't rely on the confidence of candidates to speak up or direct interviews. Many candidates are nervous/quiet/shy and the greatest problem can be seeing beyond these nerves. Also, a candidate might reasonably expect, within the whole admissions process, to have enough variety of questions that they can excel at some, so that a dud performance on one occasion can be taken into context.
(i) Nima's issue seems to be that the interviews/test went well, and still he didn't get offered a place - though I can't see how it's possible for him to properly (rather than anecdotally) compare his interviews and test with other others.
(ii) Interviewers can't rely on the confidence of candidates to speak up or direct interviews. Many candidates are nervous/quiet/shy and the greatest problem can be seeing beyond these nerves. Also, a candidate might reasonably expect, within the whole admissions process, to have enough variety of questions that they can excel at some, so that a dud performance on one occasion can be taken into context.
jcw
For 2003 entry at Cambridge University:
%ge of applicants receiving offers
Independent Schools - 32%
Comprehensive School - 23%
Sixth Form Colleges - 25%
%ge of applicants receiving offers
White - 28%
Non-white - 22%
[eg, Indian - 24%
[Black African - 18%
[Chinese - 29%
%ge of applicants receiving offers
Independent Schools - 32%
Comprehensive School - 23%
Sixth Form Colleges - 25%
%ge of applicants receiving offers
White - 28%
Non-white - 22%
[eg, Indian - 24%
[Black African - 18%
[Chinese - 29%
None of these statistics add up. And you must have the ethnicity ones wrong - there are far more than 28% of students who are white here! (As there should be, statistically.
Nima, I'm sorry to hear you were so badly treated by the interviewers. I would go through your school for feedback first and then if that doesn't resolve the case I would complain to the college, because unless there is some real reason for cutting you so short, it is unacceptable (though whether it was just because you're from a state school is something I strongly contest)
Related discussions
- how much do oxbridge care about gcses
- Oxbridge admissions process - which one cares most about GCSEs?
- Reapplication dilemma
- Are interview prep day from companies like Oxbridge Applications worth the money?
- Will my 6s disadvantage me in any way for Imperial EEE?
- UCL reputation in uk
- Oxford Biochemistry / Biology
- Should I re apply?
- Oxbridge Admissions
- Cancelling UCAS early application and re-applying
- Admission Form into Havilla University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Claretian University of Nigeria 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utm
- Admission Form into Pan-Atlantic University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Jewel University, Gombe state 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme
- Admission Form intoCollege of Petroleum and Energy Studies, Kaduna State 2023/(2024)
- Admission Form into Topfaith University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Thomas Adewumi University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Al-Istiqama University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Mudiame University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
- Admission Form into Maranathan University 2023/(2024),Pre Degree/Post Utme Form
Latest
Trending
Last reply 18 hours ago
Weidenfeld Hoffmann Trust (WHT) Scholarship Notification (2024-2025)Last reply 23 hours ago
Oxbridge applicants for modern languages - 2025 entry (applying in 2024)Last reply 1 week ago
Will I get into Oxford with my GCSE results? - EngineeringLast reply 3 weeks ago
will 5 a levels give me a better chance at getting into oxford?Trending
Last reply 18 hours ago
Weidenfeld Hoffmann Trust (WHT) Scholarship Notification (2024-2025)Last reply 23 hours ago
Oxbridge applicants for modern languages - 2025 entry (applying in 2024)Last reply 1 week ago
Will I get into Oxford with my GCSE results? - EngineeringLast reply 3 weeks ago
will 5 a levels give me a better chance at getting into oxford?
