Official Thread: (Undergraduate) Medicine 2023 Entry

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qwert7890
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#61
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#61
(Original post by ecolier)
Yes
That’s surprisingly low!! Is ST1 different to CST1?
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ecolier
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#62
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#62
(Original post by qwert7890)
That’s surprisingly low!! Is ST1 different to CST1?
No. CST is a common "back up" for NS ST1 applicants - you can enter NS at ST3 after completing 2 years of CST.

That's the normal amount of posts for neurosurgery ST1 though - once you're in, it's a "run-through" training programme so as long as you pass your exams and workplace-based assessments, just work 8 years and you'll be a neurosurgeon.

FYI, here are some stats:
2020 NS ST1 220 applicants, 26 posts = 8.46 applicants to 1 post
2020 CST1 2322 applicants, 605 posts = 3.84 applicants to 1 post
2020 NS ST3 22 applicants, 1 post = 22 applicants to 1 post

2019 NS ST1 157 applicants, 24 posts = 6.54 applicants to 1 post
2019 CST1 1896 applicants, 648 posts = 2.93 applicants to 1 post
2019 NS ST3 21 applicants, 3 posts = 7 applicants to 1 post

2018 NS ST1 152 applicants, 34 posts = 4.47 applicants to 1 post
2018 CST1 1870 applicants, 636 posts = 2.94 applicants to 1 post
2018 NS ST3 12 applicants, 2 posts = 6 applicants to 1 post

(Note: even for medical specialty training - 2020 was an outlier due to COVID and doctors less willing to go on a gap year leading to a spike in competition ratios)
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qwert7890
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#63
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#63
(Original post by ecolier)
No. CST is a common "back up" for NS ST1 applicants - you can enter NS at ST3 after completing 2 years of CST.

That's the normal amount of posts for neurosurgery ST1 though - once you're in, it's a "run-through" training programme so as long as you pass your exams and workplace-based assessments, just work 8 years and you'll be a neurosurgeon.

FYI, here are some stats:
2020 NS ST1 220 applicants, 26 posts = 8.46 applicants to 1 post
2020 CST1 2322 applicants, 605 posts = 3.84 applicants to 1 post
2020 NS ST3 22 applicants, 1 post = 22 applicants to 1 post

2019 NS ST1 157 applicants, 24 posts = 6.54 applicants to 1 post
2019 CST1 1896 applicants, 648 posts = 2.93 applicants to 1 post
2019 NS ST3 21 applicants, 3 posts = 7 applicants to 1 post

2018 NS ST1 152 applicants, 34 posts = 4.47 applicants to 1 post
2018 CST1 1870 applicants, 636 posts = 2.94 applicants to 1 post
2018 NS ST3 12 applicants, 2 posts = 6 applicants to 1 post

(Note: even for medical specialty training - 2020 was an outlier due to COVID and doctors less willing to go on a gap year leading to a spike in competition ratios)
Those competition ratios make my eyes hurt 😭 especially since I remember reading they’re planning to reduce NS ST1 posts lol.

I didn’t know that - thanks though. I guess my clichéd neurosurgery dream will have to be shattered for the next med student cliché - cardiology :rofl:

I didn’t know you had ‘run throughs’ like that for surgical training though, that’s cool. Does IMT have a run through like that too, or is it only IMT 1-3 first?
Last edited by qwert7890; 7 months ago
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ecolier
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#64
Report Thread starter 7 months ago
#64
(Original post by qwert7890)
Those competition ratios make my eyes hurt 😭 especially since I remember reading they’re planning to reduce NS ST1 posts lol.
That's right, the demand is stagnating and there are more non-surgical management plans.

I didn’t know that - thanks though. I guess my clichéd neurosurgery dream will have to be shattered for the next med student cliché - cardiology :rofl:
:lol: Broken before even you're in med school, that must be a record.

Let me know if you need help with a Cardiology application - because I have applied and got a job in that (but chose neurology over it).

I didn’t know you had ‘run throughs’ like that for surgical training though, that’s cool. Does IMT have a run through like that too, or is it only IMT 1-3 first?
No, only a few specialties do run-through these days.

Examples:
- Cardiothoracic surgery
- Radiology
- Community Sexual and Reproductive Health
- GP
- Obs and Gynae
- Ophthalmology
- Obs and Gynae
- Paediatrics
- Public Health

Note - there may well be internal competition for sub-specialties.
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starinthenight
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#65
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#65
is this the medschool thread for current yr 11s?!
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DGeorge13
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#66
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#66
(Original post by starinthenight)
is this the medschool thread for current yr 11s?!
I think so yes - and others applying for that year
Last edited by DGeorge13; 7 months ago
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DGeorge13
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#67
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#67
(Original post by ecolier)
No, only a few specialties do run-through these days.

Examples:
- Cardiothoracic surgery
- Radiology
- Community Sexual and Reproductive Health
- GP
- Obs and Gynae
- Ophthalmology
- Obs and Gynae
- Paediatrics
- Public Health

Note - there may well be internal competition for sub-specialties.
I think Psychiatry brought a pilot CAMHS run through that they may well keep too but it is quite competitive compared to normal psychiatry.
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ecolier
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#68
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#68
(Original post by DGeorge13)
I think Psychiatry brought a pilot CAMHS run through that they may well keep too but it is quite competitive compared to normal psychiatry.
Good for them, it's time that something with the word psychiatry in is competitive.
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DGeorge13
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#69
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#69
(Original post by ecolier)
Good for them, it's time that something with the word psychiatry in is competitive.
I mean London psychiatry already kind of was!
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ecolier
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#70
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#70
(Original post by DGeorge13)
I mean London psychiatry already kind of was!
Everything in London is competitive though, I was referring to nationally!

Edited to add: Saying that, there are some London-based GPs which are so incompetitive that the "Golden Hello" £20k is still offered to people training in those places.
Last edited by ecolier; 7 months ago
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DGeorge13
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#71
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#71
(Original post by ecolier)
Everything in London is competitive though, I was referring to nationally!

Edited to add: Saying that, there are some London-based GPs which are so incompetitive that the "Golden Hello" £20k is still offered to people training in those places.
It’s nice if you wanted those jobs then though!
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nexttime
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#72
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#72
(Original post by qwert7890)
That’s surprisingly low!! Is ST1 different to CST1?
Neurosurgery is a small and (slightly) shrinking specialty. In reality, they have to turn down far more patients than they actually operate on, as many neurosurgical procedures are highly ineffective. Some of their core procedures are being superseded by e.g. radiotherapy.

There was a recent post where someone asked why so few doctors actually apply to be neurosurgeons when the time comes. Its still enough to cause big competition though of course.

About the only major growth area I can think of is deep brain stimulation - ecolier would know more about that than me in terms of scale and what might be coming up in the future.

Someone has to be a neurosurgeon though, and unfortunately you do realistically need to decide to be one very far in advance so you can work extra hard to build that CV. But maybe give it at least a couple years med school before seriously thinking about anything!
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starinthenight
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#73
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#73
hiya wanted to check out a rumour but is it true that if u show a really deep interest into one certain aspect of medicine eg psychiatry, cardiology in your interview its an amazing thing to show ? so in the summer would u recommend to start reading books on a certain aspect of medicine rather than little bits of everything?
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ecolier
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#74
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#74
(Original post by starinthenight)
hiya wanted to check out a rumour but is it true that if u show a really deep interest into one certain aspect of medicine eg psychiatry, cardiology in your interview its an amazing thing to show ? so in the summer would u recommend to start reading books on a certain aspect of medicine rather than little bits of everything?
No, it's not an amazing thing to show. You can express a mild interest but being completely fixated, especially in a cliched specialty e.g. neurosurgery is not a good look.

It would be much more "amazing" if you showed that you know what the realities of working as a junior doctor is like. Read the books recommended in this thread: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=6491274

(Original post by nexttime)
...About the only major growth area I can think of is deep brain stimulation - ecolier would know more about that than me in terms of scale and what might be coming up in the future....
Even here, they may be alternatives - focussed ultrasound therapy.
Last edited by ecolier; 7 months ago
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qwert7890
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#75
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#75
(Original post by nexttime)
Neurosurgery is a small and (slightly) shrinking specialty. In reality, they have to turn down far more patients than they actually operate on, as many neurosurgical procedures are highly ineffective. Some of their core procedures are being superseded by e.g. radiotherapy.

There was a recent post where someone asked why so few doctors actually apply to be neurosurgeons when the time comes. Its still enough to cause big competition though of course.

About the only major growth area I can think of is deep brain stimulation - ecolier would know more about that than me in terms of scale and what might be coming up in the future.

Someone has to be a neurosurgeon though, and unfortunately you do realistically need to decide to be one very far in advance so you can work extra hard to build that CV. But maybe give it at least a couple years med school before seriously thinking about anything!
Yes haha, neurosurgery is not on my list of top specialties. I’ve only been exposed to a fraction of the myriad of possibilities, so I’ll only decide towards the end of med school.

Also thanks for the link to the post - very interesting indeed..
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DGeorge13
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#76
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#76
I know that the ones I have so far found more interesting are not on the uber competitive list
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ecolier
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#77
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#77
(Original post by DGeorge13)
I know that the ones I have so far found more interesting are not on the uber competitive list
Good for you, the competitive ones tend to be overhyped (not neurology, obviously )
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DGeorge13
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#78
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#78
(Original post by ecolier)
Good for you, the competitive ones tend to be overhyped (not neurology, obviously )
True . Neurology sounds exciting given the inevitable advancements that are still able to happen. Most of the ones I’m thinking (there’s lots) are less than 2-3 applicants per place. The psychiatry run through for child and adolescent actually has been ratio wise lower chances than neurosurgery apparently
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ecolier
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#79
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#79
(Original post by DGeorge13)
True . Neurology sounds exciting given the inevitable advancements that are still able to happen.
Exactly :five: That's one of the main reasons why I picked this specialty.

There is still a lot to be discovered in terms of physiology, pathology, diagnosis and management.

We still don't know a lot about how the brain works, or the diseases that we treat.

For example, a very topical research area is the link between constipation and development of Parkinson's Disease. More and more neuroscientists now think that PD is actually a bowel disease, however implausible that sounds :lol: A lot of interesting questions have popped up: can we prevent PD? Is constipation a specific marker? Apparently PD will be cured in 10 years' time... according to some neurologists.

It's such an exciting time to be a neurologist :excited:

Most of the ones I’m thinking (there’s lots) are less than 2-3 applicants per place.
A few years ago neurology was around that number... it then shot up and has remained between 3-4 applicants per place for the last 5-6 years, for some reason out-competing cardiology even though the latter is much more glamourous ("the surgeons amongst the medics").

And of course, competition ratio swings weirdly like fashion trends. Back in the 1990s paediatrics was the craze it was super competitive then, now it lingers amongst the least hard to get in!

The psychiatry run through for child and adolescent actually has been ratio wise lower chances than neurosurgery apparently
:zomg: Crazy numbers!
Last edited by ecolier; 7 months ago
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DGeorge13
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#80
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#80
(Original post by ecolier)
:zomg: Crazy numbers!
Probably the fact they are quite specific areas you get to pick the jobs and can stay in the same region for 7 years.

I don’t know why it is more fashionable than cardiology at the minute.

The new ideas and science is very appealing though
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