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Why chemistry graduate jobs so competitive?? I don't know what to do.

Got a 1st class BSc in chemistry, with 8 week internship in organic lab, and 1 year placement in pharmaceutical company. Have sent 70+ applications, and had lots of interviews [9] but no offer yet. Why is it so competitive chemistry job market? Do I need more work experience (at mediocre low pay chemistry job) or an MSc to get better chances of getting the ideal job? I feel rather lost. :frown:

Any help/advice appreciated. Thank you.
Original post by Galdiowolf
Got a 1st class BSc in chemistry, with 8 week internship in organic lab, and 1 year placement in pharmaceutical company. Have sent 70+ applications, and had lots of interviews [9] but no offer yet. Why is it so competitive chemistry job market? Do I need more work experience (at mediocre low pay chemistry job) or an MSc to get better chances of getting the ideal job? I feel rather lost. :frown:

Any help/advice appreciated. Thank you.


@CheeseIsVeg and @Plantagenet Crown may be able to advise more on the chemistry specific side of things :smile:

That said in general I think it's pretty challenging getting a graduate job, so sending out a lot of applications and not getting too much traction there is maybe not so surprising regardless of what you were applying to. That said, 9 interviews seems like a fairly healthy number so perhaps you are falling down a bit in interview? Did you get any feedback from them?
Reply 2
THank you for your reply.

I feel like i have 0 chance to get the job if a phd is also applying.

The feedback I got was that i don't give more details in the the competency based questions on some responses, and i give less contribution to teamwork.
Reply 3
Although I'm not in chemical (I work in elec&mech engineering technology industry), I tend to agree with @artful_lounger.
9 interviews out of 70 applications seems good, and is close to what I had when I was looking for a graduate job a few years back (applied to around 40-50 jobs, gotten 5-6 interviews), some of my mates applied to around 20 jobs and got 2-3 interviews, so ~15% success rate seems to be the norm.

Considering you are getting that many interviews means your applications and CV are solid, so that's not the problem. You are considered to be qualified for the job. By inviting you over for an interview, the hiring manager signals you are hire-able from technical perspective, what's left is to find out how will you fit into the team and what are your aspirations (motivation), these things are what the interviews are generally for and it seems you may need to improve on that.

Don't beat yourself up over it though. There are a few reasons for not getting an offer in addition to simply failing the interview. From personal experience - the job requisition got cancelled by corporate team midway through the process (happened when I was hiring, so we had to decline all applications regardless of how good the candidates were), other similar situation is the number of open job requisitions got reduced from 3 to say 1 so they had to eliminate some candidates even though they were going to issue the offers (true story and very recent).
The issues above and similar cannot and will not be communicated to the candidates for obvious reasons, so the otherwise great candidates receive generic decline emails or even get ghosted. It's not fair, it's dumb, but that's how it is sometimes unfortunately.

I also doubt PhD's are applying for graduate level jobs. If they are, then I'd imagine them getting declines with reasons like "we cannot afford you", "you are overqualified for this job", etc. Reason I wouldn't want to hire a PhD for a graduate job is because I know they aren't going to be satisfied with the level of work so I expect them to take the first opportunity to go work somewhere else, while I'd prefer to take someone with Bachelors or Masters who's done an internship so I can help them grow and develop so hopefully the stay with the company long term.

I could give a few suggestions on how to appear more likeable on the interview:
- Obviously show you are competent in your field and relate that competence to the job requirement. Use what's on your CV, this is the content that has been approved, so it's safe to use. Tell the story, use STAR method when talking about your past experience (Situation - Task - Action - Result). Since you did an internship it shouldn't be hard to think of examples. Also try to quantify the outcomes of your work (dollar value, efficiency improvement, product enablement, etc.).
- People don't remember much of what you spoken about during the interview, but they will remember how they felt being in your company. So prepare well, appear and sound confident, show a bit of personality.
- Don't just talk about yourself, bring something with you to show the results of your past work. May that be simulation results, final year project summary, or something else that showcases your skills. Print that out, show to the interviewers and talk about it. Believe me, you will stand out from the crowd if you do that.

Keep going and don't give up :smile:

Wish you all the best,
Al
Original post by Galdiowolf
THank you for your reply.

I feel like i have 0 chance to get the job if a phd is also applying.

The feedback I got was that i don't give more details in the the competency based questions on some responses, and i give less contribution to teamwork.

Generally I'd expect PhDs are probably applying to different roles than graduates of an undergraduate degree. If you are applying to roles aimed more at PhDs then that may be something to correct - but given your interview conversion rate I think that's probably not the case :smile:

I think then the main thing is to focus on that feedback and reflect on how you did in the interview in light of that, and how you can improve for the next interview. Think about the competency based questions and the level of detail you gave when answering, and think about how you could add to that. Likewise think about any group activities or teamwork oriented questions and how you can better demonstrate your team skills!
lots of good advice already

- esp practice your competency based answers, Can you still get support from your Uni for stuff like this? FWIW (and you may know already) you always know what competency based questions will be because they are usually in the person spec

Have some good strong questions to ask them too, I used to try and be memorable by asking interesting questions.

What field are you chasing? I wanted to break in to scientific research after first degree and wasn't getting interviews for the work areas I wanted, so went and did a taught Masters. Got me where I wanted to be.
(edited 8 months ago)
Reply 6
Was feeling really depressed lately, I'm starting to feel better now. It's just we are always given that dream - you will get great job etc. after graduation when it's not the case.

Thank you all for the valuable advice! I will focus on the competency questions for the interviews!

Original post by ChiefBrody
lots of good advice already

- esp practice your competency based answers, Can you still get support from your Uni for stuff like this? FWIW (and you may know already) you always know what competency based questions will be because they are usually in the person spec

Have some good strong questions to ask them too, I used to try and be memorable by asking interesting questions.

What field are you chasing? I wanted to break in to scientific research after first degree and wasn't getting interviews for the work areas I wanted, so went and did a taught Masters. Got me where I wanted to be.

Trying to get into mostly: formulation/analytical/organic chemistry. I thought about the MSc, but just not financially viable for me right now, maybe next couple of years I will look into it as well.
Not surprised this is getting you down, sorry to hear that :frown:

I was similar after graduation, part of what helped was having a plan - and every day there were things I would be doing
(i) looking for roles - and not just in the usual places, because the more widely advertised the role the more competition you face
(ii) iterating my application materials, because the more tailored the application the better (usually)
(iii) making applications, again looking to stand out a little
(iv) getting feedback / reviewing CV etc
(v) getting feedback improving interview technique etc
(vi) rehearsing my answers in front of a mirror, or even better video and watching back
(vii) reading around the subject, because you may get a question about something current / topical and it will make you stand out (this happened to me at an interview and really made a difference) - keeps your knowledge current too

You Uni should be able to help even after graduation, are they helping?

You could do something left field, like start writing about the subject on Medium, entering competitions, enrolling on a residential course?

Remember, research shows that even the most accurate recruitment process only gets it right about 50% of the time - so it really is a numbers game - but be careful taking a role that isn't right because you feel desperate. My first job after graduation was in manufacturing, it was a really bad fit and I quickly left, which was hard to explain when I went back to the job market
Original post by artful_lounger
@CheeseIsVeg and @Plantagenet Crown may be able to advise more on the chemistry specific side of things :smile:

That said in general I think it's pretty challenging getting a graduate job, so sending out a lot of applications and not getting too much traction there is maybe not so surprising regardless of what you were applying to. That said, 9 interviews seems like a fairly healthy number so perhaps you are falling down a bit in interview? Did you get any feedback from them?

Hey thanks so much for tagging me in this one!

I massively agree that it's so difficult to get a graduate job in chemistry and especially onto a graduate scheme.

Original post by Galdiowolf
Got a 1st class BSc in chemistry, with 8 week internship in organic lab, and 1 year placement in pharmaceutical company. Have sent 70+ applications, and had lots of interviews [9] but no offer yet. Why is it so competitive chemistry job market? Do I need more work experience (at mediocre low pay chemistry job) or an MSc to get better chances of getting the ideal job? I feel rather lost. :frown:

Any help/advice appreciated. Thank you.


Hi there @Gladiowolf :hi:

I graduated from my chemistry degree in 2021, I did a straight MChem but did 2 research projects which were my main sources of experience on applications so it's really great you have the placement and internship experiences!!

I've just looked back through my records, I started applying for graduate roles in late 2020 because I was keen on trying a graduate scheme as I didn't know exactly what kind of role I was going to be good at.
I applied to 20 roles roughly. I was then invited to 5 online assessment centres for mainly the big firms such as Babcock, Atkins, AWE, JM and BAE systems.

Overall I had about 11 interviews for varying stages, some were automated online ones and then a few were of the stages for smaller companies which is the offer I ended up taking. In the end I was waiting for Johnson Matthey and the role I took. JM still had 2 stages to go in their interview process and it was shift work :colondollar: so I ended up going for the smaller company which was an awesome choice because I've had so many different opportunities.

I'd say at the start I definitely found it hard to kind of stand out against many other applicants and I got loads of rejections! I also wasn't so great at some of the online assessments as I'm not good at the puzzles where you figure out what jigsaw piece fits where and sequences ands stuff :hide:

For interviews, as mentioned the STAR technique is excellent. One thing I always recommend is research news articles or new initiatives taken by the company you're applying to. E.g: one company just launched a life cycle analysis tool to cost activities on carbon emissions and I thought that was really quite exciting so I mentioned it as a key reason why I was interested in that company and felt that their level of importance on CO2 emissions was important to me and that it was why I decided to submit an application!

I'd also say a large part has been preparing presentations and being able to reflect and state what you learned about yourself and how you work from things you did at uni etc. That has been something that I think helped me stand out. I also like to volunteer etc and have extra-curricular interests and so I always ask companies that at the end of an interview, I think it helps to show you are actively interested in that company.

Finally, a big thing I got support with at Uni was CV and Cover Letter writing. I used the CV service here at TSR as well and it really really helped me. A top tip for 2023 is actually using Chat GPT to start your cover letter, then top it off yourself. Main thing is to include all the key words in the job description to highlight and prove in your cover letter that you already have those skills.

However, I started applying to smaller sized companies to do more technical roles where I could still experience and learn from the other things going on at the company. I ended up taking that job instead of waiting for JM and it was super beneficial. I've been able to do a paid-for coding apprenticeship and lead digital-chemistry initiatives at the company :biggrin:
_____________________
Sorry this is so much info!

I just wanted to reassure you that you will get there, it takes time!
I am happy to help if you want any help with CV/Cover letter or if there's anything specific you're worried about!

Since getting this job I've actually secured another one so much more easily. Once you get some experience in a role (for me = 2 years), your skills are so desirable and you can go for higher salaries etc. So for context, I've been applying since May 2023 and I applied to about 19 roles. I received 7 invites to interview, 4 of which were on-site. I was able to skip the official application process for 3 roles since I knew the hiring managers from connections or from previous graduate roles.
I was then offered 4 roles over various different time-points and decided to accept one position in June 2023. :woohoo:

_________
If I can do it, so can you!
You got this :smile:
Reply 9
Thank you everyone for the amazing advice! it really helped, and gave me some motivation as well.

I feel I'm nearly out of the stormy clouds. SO far I applied to 100 now. - I now have 6 (from none a couple days ago!) interviews with done/upcoming (with 1 placed in a grad. scheme!). it's a matter of time before I get an offer (so I hope)...

:smile::smile::smile:
(edited 8 months ago)
Reply 10
Quick update:
After 20+ interviews, I have concluded my 3 month job search and have received an offer!!

Thank you everyone for your guidance.
Awesome, did you change anything to make that happen or was it persistence and resilience that got you through?
Reply 12
Original post by ChiefBrody
Awesome, did you change anything to make that happen or was it persistence and resilience that got you through?


Yes, I think both of those attributes really helped, because it can be disheartening to get lots of rejections and ghosting.
I think it was mostly confidence in my answers - especially the technical questions. Competency I still lack on - but improved a lot as I became more familiar with similar questions popping up.
(edited 7 months ago)
I will chime in with my experiences. I have a BSc (biomedical sciences at an academic university from my home country (not UK)), MSc (medical biology, a 2-year research master from an academic university in my home country (not UK), with one publication (not the main author, though)), and a PhD (chemistry, Cambridge, one publication as the first author). I also have one year research experience in another foreign country (done before starting my PhD) and one year of art school (done straight after my secondary school).

After my PhD I wanted to get into medical communications. I had already done some volunteer/free-lance writing and had been on the committee of two science societies at the University of Cambridge (for which I did photography, web design, graphic design). I didn't yet drive so was limited in where I could find a job (really only IN Cambridge) and this was pre-pandemic so remote working wasn't really a big thing yet.

I think I sent around 30 genuine applications for which I was a STRONG candidate, most were related to medical/science writing as well as some consulting etc as there were so few medical writing opportunities consulting seemed very interesting too as I have strong literature research skills. It took me three months to get 1 (ONE) offer only (I probably had around 4 interviews total). And this was for an entry level job (despite having a PhD: they really prefer you to have a PhD but the money of an entry level job (the only thing they will consider you for) just doesn't compensate for being older and having studied for that long). The job I ended up getting was uugghh, and it didn't work out. I then had another stint of three months looking for work before I got 1 (ONE!) offer for a tech author job. That job was pretty decent, a nice company, but the pay was, again, entry level which with Cambridge rents isn't that much.

There is a fair bit of degree inflation I would say. Both of these jobs described above don't actually require a PhD experience to be able to do them well. But because of how many other applicants there are, there will be some who have a PhD so the employer will prefer to get the most bang for their buck and you basically need a PhD (or perhaps just MSc is ok too) just to keep up even if the experience isn't really needed... It is really crap, but I also unknowingly played along in this game. In my home country you ALWAYS do a Master's if you go to an academic university (before the BaMa system my degree would have just been 5 years, there was no certificate for having made it half-way (Bachelor's), if I understand it correctly). I then continued to do PhD because I love science and liked working in a lab.

I do have to say I didn't look at lab work or Post-doc because I was just really done with academia and working in the lab, after my PhD experience. So I limited myself to relatively rare jobs that are a 'side step' from the career path I set out on when I did Master's and PhD.

This is just to illustrate that it is ROUGH out there. MANY people are 'good enough' for the jobs they choose to apply to. In my home country most degrees aren't really selective to get into as long as you have the right kind of secondary school with at least passing grades, so if you grow up in a system where, if you are bright and work hard, you can get what you want (in education), then it's hard to find out that going to school for even longer is no guarantee for any decent job. Now you not only have to be 'good enough', you have to be the best because for every vacancy you apply to, they usually only look for 1 person. On top of that, in my case, after spending two years on Master's, one year of research abroad, and then four years on PhD, I was 30 when I started looking for a 'real' job, and with that big investment in education and my age, I had certain salary expectations.

And if you are honest to yourself about your qualifications and skills and experience, and you only apply to roles for which you know you are a strong candidate, you will still find that you won't get most roles you applied to. I didn't even get an interview for most of the jobs I applied to despite my strong CV.

It's really rough out there. The only thing I can say is to ensure you only apply when you are a strong candidate. And to keep on applying.

In my case I now have a driving licence and a car. If I had had this when I still lived in Cambridge, I would have been able to apply to many more jobs. So, if you currently don't drive, I would recommend learning this ASAP. Even if you can't afford a car yet. You might be able to borrow a car or lease a care for the first few months if you find a job for which you need access to a vehicle (and then save up to buy a cheap second-hand one).

What is your 'ideal job'? I don't know about chemistry roles specifically as that isn't my field, but I would say a Bachelor's degree isn't really all that much these days. Not in research (neither in academia or industry). You might be aiming too high, although it is promising you got a good number of interviews. For each of my stints of job hunting I kept an Excel file with details of every single application I made. This helped me keep track of my applications so I could chase up on any from which I hadn't heard after two weeks. I also recorded whether I got an interview (or writing assignment, something that is common when looking for writing jobs), and whether I got an offer.

You may have applied to a couple of (slightly) different roles? Do you know whether you were more successful for one than the other(s)? That should help you put your effort towards only the role where you have been most successful so far in your applications, OR if this isn't your ideal job, try to figure out what you are lacking to be competitive for the job that is your ideal role.

I also think that the 'ideal job' doesn't exist, but you'll find that out yourself: no job is going to give you everything you want. And I think that with only an undergraduate degree and so far no offers, you should not expect to find a job even close to 'ideal' as your first or even first few roles, although all of the jobs you will get are a learning experience.

Have you asked and gotten feedback on your applications and interviews? Does your university have a career service/support that you can still make use of?

I hope this helps.

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