How to get a position on a graduate scheme?

OP

Original post by Chapeau Rouge

Yes they are extremely competitive and does appear to be much of a lottery in terms of who gets on them, I'm a final year student and know of only three people who are friends of friends who have got on them! What I would say from what I seen is that those who have interned in the summer, while not guaranteed to get on one, find they get a lot further than those who have no work experience.

In terms of what you mean by best academics, of course you have to get a 2:1 and at least 300 UCAs points for a lot of them but a first doesn't really help that much. Extra Curriculars are irrelevant unless you can tailor them to the position you are applying for and you would never emphasise how social you are on an application ie. I like to go on bar crawls and go to the pub, it will be obvious when they interview you whether you are completely socially awkward and unable to work with people!

Oh, so all this society rubbish at uni is a lie then? I have seen some schemes which ask to see you've held key positions in a society, so surely grad employers care about these? Otherwise your CV will be pretty blank with a uni name, part time job, a levels and possibly small time work experience.

Did your friends attend top unis and did they get them off the back of internships? Also, what sorts of degrees did they do? Science, engineering etc?

Reply 3

giella

15

They want positions of responsibility most of the time. Societies do help if you can get to run one, or be treasurer or something. It's also good if you can show you've managed or organised some kind of project, so fundraising, events management etc are good to get involved with.

One thing many graduates really lack is commercial awareness, which is a knowledge of how businesses work, the importance of organisation, business vernacular etc. The understanding basically that businesses have two priorities: meeting the needs of customers/clients and turning a profit. There are numerous ways to get this but graduates often just don't have it or don't demonstrate it. Part time work in a number of different positions is the way to go here to fill in that section of the application form.

Reply 4

thegaffer91

15

As someone who has got onto a graduate scheme, I feel that I should give some advice.

If you are applying to roles that are 'on your level', then getting a decent 2:1 is all you need grades wise. It is when you are applying for roles above where your university says you should be that they become important, as it can be something that stands out to HR.

Work experience is vital. It can be used for so so much - competency answers (which are vital for getting through the early rounds), contacts, industry knowledge, even just showing you can work well. Also, if you get the experience on your own then it shows initiative.

Also, positions of responsibility are crucial as well. The best way to do this is either through becoming a committee member of a society or a sports captain. It shows initiative, the ability to do a lot of work and prioritise your time and, again, the crucial competencies.

In the summer between first and second year, get some relevant work experience. Don't worry if it isn't paid, it'll be more than worth it later in the process. At the start of 2nd year, before the work starts piling on, get applications for internships done. Find out which firms open theirs early and get the applications out asap.

Make sure you research the companies thoroughly when applying, and before interviews. Apply sensibly. Don't just apply to the companies you really want to work to, normally it takes around 40 applications, along with a reasonable amount of luck to get these roles. If you get rejections, don't give up, it happens.

If anyone has any q's about grad schemes, just give me a shout. FYI, I'm starting a role in investment consultancy in the london area from september

Reply 5

Peel

10

Thinking about it, I think my class has been pretty lucky so far in that most people / a very large percentage of people have got a job offer or are very close to getting one. The ones who don't are generally those applying for something very competitive (like hedge funds) or don't really know what they want. I'd say from observation things that really do help are strong or varied extra-curriculars that you can spin well for competencies, internships (whether they be at large multinational companies or your local, but relevant, employers), prestigious awards to a lesser degree, and of course you have to be / come across as quite a polished applicant in interviews / assessment centres - to some people that's natural, to others you have to prepare a bit.

But I really think a lot of graduates are a bit clueless in knowing what employers want before it's too late. I know I was at least! But I was kinda lucky. So my advice to budding 1sts years is to find a society / club that does something your passionate about, get involved in the committe and try do a good job so you have results to show; take some initiative and get an internship, even if it's not necessarily exactly what you want, and prep for the interviews if need be!

Edit: Doing a uni project that's related to the line of work you're applying for won't hurt either...

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6

Graduate training schemes are overrated tbh. Drop out rates are huge, support is lacklustre and they often are only 2-3 year contracts. Pay is good but you quickly catch up if you go into a more normal job.

Reply 7

OP

Original post by Llamageddon

Graduate training schemes are overrated tbh. Drop out rates are huge, support is lacklustre and they often are only 2-3 year contracts. Pay is good but you quickly catch up if you go into a more normal job.

But many people who get on them are guaranteed full time positions once they've received training. I know that's the case for Law and Accountancy certainly. Oh and as for these professions, you need further exams etc. They pay for your tuition and help you et the qualifications, e.g. for ACCA you need 450 days work experience, as well as passing the 16 exams. I think it makes life a lot easier to get on one. Tbh, I don't think it's too hard to get onto one, but the level of applications for the top 100 make it look difficult. Furthermore, many don't bother researching smaller firms, and thus question themselves when they get rejected by the big boys.

Reply 8

Original post by victoryshinesonus

But many people who get on them are guaranteed full time positions once they've received training. I know that's the case for Law and Accountancy certainly. Oh and as for these professions, you need further exams etc. They pay for your tuition and help you et the qualifications, e.g. for ACCA you need 450 days work experience, as well as passing the 16 exams. I think it makes life a lot easier to get on one. Tbh, I don't think it's too hard to get onto one, but the level of applications for the top 100 make it look difficult. Furthermore, many don't bother researching smaller firms, and thus question themselves when they get rejected by the big boys.

The "professions" are exceptions as they train you for something specific and are generally fairly OK to get onto assuming you've got the grades and a reasonable amount of EC's. I was more referring to these management training ones at the likes of network rail, NHS, xyz retail store and so on, where there is immense competition for really, really bad jobs.

If you're going for law you might want to try the special constabulary. It's great experience, demands only 4 hours a week, you get discounts that make even students jealous and in some areas free public transport too. You'd get to see the application of law and how the wording can make things insanely difficult.

Reply 9

OP

Original post by Llamageddon

The "professions" are exceptions as they train you for something specific and are generally fairly OK to get onto assuming you've got the grades and a reasonable amount of EC's. I was more referring to these management training ones at the likes of network rail, NHS, xyz retail store and so on, where there is immense competition for really, really bad jobs.

If you're going for law you might want to try the special constabulary. It's great experience, demands only 4 hours a week, you get discounts that make even students jealous and in some areas free public transport too. You'd get to see the application of law and how the wording can make things insanely difficult.

Ah, yes, management programmes. I don't think they matter, you're right, because experience moves you up that ladder. I'm seriously looking at accountancy atm, might apply to one of the big 4, but will probably aim for a top 20 firm, as I feel that's more realistic. Is accountancy very competitive? I don't see many people talking about it on here, and considering it's quite well paid and this is meant to be a forum for those aiming high, it surprises me a bit. Perhaps with accountancy you need a certain passion for it because it can get boring at times? I think the exams you need after graduating puts a lot of people off?

Reply 10

Original post by victoryshinesonus

Ah, yes, management programmes. I don't think they matter, you're right, because experience moves you up that ladder. I'm seriously looking at accountancy atm, might apply to one of the big 4, but will probably aim for a top 20 firm, as I feel that's more realistic. Is accountancy very competitive? I don't see many people talking about it on here, and considering it's quite well paid and this is meant to be a forum for those aiming high, it surprises me a bit. Perhaps with accountancy you need a certain passion for it because it can get boring at times? I think the exams you need after graduating puts a lot of people off?

I applied to PwC on a whim and got fairly far with little interest, stopping the process when I had an offer to do work in research. Surely most of the application questions are the same on different forms? write them this summer, post them in year 3?

I don't see why you can't make a few applications to top 4 firms. They have a lot of places.

Reply 11

snapper1

11

My sister got a place with Ernst and Young in a graduate scheme as a tax auditor but hated it and left after 2 years because it was just travelling around the country staying alone in hotels. Her friend also got on, and is now earning £60K a year already and she's only 25, but she is still travelling around/hasn't got a partner and rarely see's her family...generally she isn't very happy but feels it's better to have a good job than to chuck it all in and have nothing. My sister's now earning £30,000 at the same age and has 2 more exams to do before she becomes a chartered accountant so still has a long way to go till she's earning anything like £60,000 but it's a decent job which doesn't require lots of moving about. She's been at 2 jobs since leaving though and both of them paid for her to take her exams to become fully qualified, I think it's quite common for businesses to employ someone in an accountancy position and pay for the exams/course materials.

Neither of them were part of any clubs or anything but my sister did get work experience at an accountancy firm when she was 18 (they offered her a job actually!) It'll probably be way more competitive now but I think the key is to get interview practise and just come across well.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 12

jack1618

2

Hello. My experience comes from receiving 4 graduate training scheme offers for this year after applying to about 15. I will bullet point the main factors they look for below. Feel free to pm me with any questions.

1. Make sure your application is completed way in advance of the deadline they often close early.
2. Make sure that you have OVER the Ucas point needed, most are 280 or 340.
3. Make sure that you have had a variety of jobs. Before University I had only had 1, I'm in my final year now ( not working due to Study) but I have had 13 over the past 4 years. Variation is VITAL. Summer is perfect 3/4 different style jobs, agencies are perfect for this. eg ASA International.
4. Keep your opinion open. I went to Uni planning to read Medicine as a graduate however I joined the TA in Uni and now im going to be Banker, it's amazing the paths that Uni can lead you down.
5. For the online testing, practise, every scheme has 2-4 tests. You need to hit the benchmark.
6. For the following telephone interview just be on the ball, and very enthusiastic.
7. The final assessment centre, smile 150%, learn about the company and just be yourself and look smart.
8. References, they don't gain until you receive an offer so don't worry.
9. Most need a 2.1 however I have known them to go down to a 2.2 based on the whole application.

All info from recent personal experiences! All the best and as everyone told me, you only need one yes!

Reply 13

jack1618

2

one more point, I can assure you that it's not luck or contacts, it's hard work and determination that get you onto the schemes.

Reply 14

MagicNMedicine

20

Yes they are competitive, yes there are far more applicants than jobs.

However the good news for the people on this thread or reading this thread who are yet to go to uni or in first year is that if you plan and prepare from the start of uni and do the right things you will be well ahead of the rest of the competition and from the experience of people I knew from my course, the ones that did all the 'right things' all got grad jobs.

The 'right things' IMO include

1 - Most important - learn what different careers are and what they involve IN DETAIL, research them on the net, use forums like this, go to careers fairs, talk to employers/careers service etc. Eg say you are vaguely interested in being an accountant or actuary or working in insurance etc, learn the ins and outs of what they all involve, what training you have to do, how long to be qualified, what the different professional qualifications are, the difference between different types of career (eg in accountancy, tax or audit, or for an actuary, risk or pensions), find out the pros and cons. I found that of people I knew at uni, the ones who really knew everything about what their chosen career involved, all got jobs, the employers can tell this when they ask questions about why you have chosen this career or why applied to this stream in particular, they want to filter out the many thousands of drones who apply for every grad scheme because they want a 'grad job'

2 - Take 1st year seriously and make sure you at least get a 2:1, if you get a 1st great, not only will this put you in good stead to start 2nd year where it counts by hitting the ground running, but also most grad schemes ask you to list all your module marks and its a good signal if you took 1st year seriously, rather than lounging around. This might sound like a given when you are used to working hard for your A levels but when 1st year comes round and the marks don't officially count, you will find loads of fellow students telling you "all you need to do is pass".

3 - Use extra curriculars properly and get something positive out of them. Everybody goes on about ECs but lots of people don't get anything out of them. You don't develop the 'interpersonal skills' that grad scheme employers want, just by going on socials and socialising, anybody can chat rubbish to people when they are drunk, but employers want somebody that can network and build bridges and work with people when sober, so use your ECs to get some experience of something where you have responsibility for setting something up, organising something (it can be organising socials), if its got a budget, or relies on dealing with external businesses then perfect.

4 - Get a part time job, even low paid jobs in cafes/bars/shops etc give you customer service experience, if you show some interest in learning how the business operates you have stuff to talk about on application forms and jobs.

5 - Go all out to get some kind of internship in between 2nd and 3rd year, find out when you need to apply (early in 2nd year) and apply, use the careers service etc. If you can't get something formal try and set up something informal even a brief stint of work exp unpaid if possible, but a lot of the grad schemes operate summer internships. As a rule of thumb if you get an internship then unless you are absolutely dire on the internship, you are going to end up with a job in that industry even if not with the same company.

Reply 15

Original post by MagicNMedicine

This might sound like a given when you are used to working hard for your A levels but when 1st year comes round and the marks don't officially count, you will find loads of fellow students telling you "all you need to do is pass".

For my current job I was asked for a degree transcript with ALL my module grades on it before the interview. Whether I could get my choice of dissertation or do a year in industry (possibly very useful for accountancy and you get paid for it too) was influenced by first year results and so on. It's so daft when people view their final degree classification as the only reason to put effort into modules. University is worth so much more than the piece of paper you get at the end of it anyway.

Reply 16

non

15

Original post by victoryshinesonus

Ah, yes, management programmes. I don't think they matter, you're right, because experience moves you up that ladder. I'm seriously looking at accountancy atm, might apply to one of the big 4, but will probably aim for a top 20 firm, as I feel that's more realistic. Is accountancy very competitive? I don't see many people talking about it on here, and considering it's quite well paid and this is meant to be a forum for those aiming high, it surprises me a bit. Perhaps with accountancy you need a certain passion for it because it can get boring at times? I think the exams you need after graduating puts a lot of people off?

Original post by Llamageddon

The "professions" are exceptions as they train you for something specific and are generally fairly OK to get onto assuming you've got the grades and a reasonable amount of EC's. I was more referring to these management training ones at the likes of network rail, NHS, xyz retail store and so on, where there is immense competition for really, really bad jobs.

If you're going for law you might want to try the special constabulary. It's great experience, demands only 4 hours a week, you get discounts that make even students jealous and in some areas free public transport too. You'd get to see the application of law and how the wording can make things insanely difficult.

just wondering what is wrong with management grad schemes?

Reply 17

OP

Original post by Llamageddon

I applied to PwC on a whim and got fairly far with little interest, stopping the process when I had an offer to do work in research. Surely most of the application questions are the same on different forms? write them this summer, post them in year 3?

I don't see why you can't make a few applications to top 4 firms. They have a lot of places.

I don't meet GCSE requirements for them, unless they drop them by the time I apply (which I can only see them going higher). I was restricted to foundation tier at GCSE Maths, but I am comfortable with numbers. PwC don't look at GCSEs, so they're the only firm I'd go for. Another reason I wouldn't care if I didn't get in is for the reasons listed above by another poster, they work you very, very hard, even though the pay might be a bit better, once you're qualified, you can be on the same as someone who started at a big4, because many leave upon qualifying because they hate the workload. I've seen from the top 30 firms, that although they deal with smaller clients, they still have a fair few opportunities and you'll get a decent salary for the TC, AND paid study leave, something which you don't have much time for if you get into the big4. Also, many get fired/leave because they can't handle it there. I'm not bashing them, they're great to work for with a nice salary, dealing with govt. and big MNCs, and I'll definitely try, but I would like to have a life whilst training, and you'll get that at smaller firms whilst working towards ACCA, with many offering jobs upon qualifying of around 35-45k, you'll get around 50-75k at big4, but with experience, you can enter the big 4 later if you're desperate for money, they'll give you buckets for your life, or you can move into industry/grow at a smaller firm and still earn high 5 figures or low 6's.

Reply 18

OP