The Classics Society Mk II

I meant the rec of the book in general, its pretty dire. Basically, some (and only some) of his criticisms are fine in an American UG context where these things tend only to be covered at a very basic level, yet I can't imagine any but the worst UK universities making the same kinds of mistakes.

Also his perception of what Classics is like as a field...suggests someone totally unconnected with current research. Maybe 60 years ago this was the case. I think there's a Bryn Mawr review of it you can check.

I do agree that Classics is/needs to change though and that we will eventually see it break apart. Already even on a graduate level where things are more specialised you can see the large divides. We'll probably end up like:

1) reception studies/people doing just languages (largest grouping)
2) Greece and the Near East (inc Persia)
3) Rome, with some elements of looking back to Hellenistic times
3.5) Imp Greek/Roman lit, culture and history (already sort of here) with early Byzantine.

I'm not sure its a bad idea, when Classics was designed it was sort of possible to do a bit of everything and be widely regarded as an expert, but the level of professionalisation has rocked in the last three generations or so and its going to get higher.

I mean, we already have a firm Greece/Roman divide anyway and then some other further divisions (historians, archaeologists, linguistics, lit guys and then papyrology and paleo guys on the other end) so, yeah...interesting proposition.

Well as I said, it was a skim through parts and then I read the last chapter which is what really got me thinking.

How do you think it will (if it indeed does) break apart? Are we naturally breaking away now or will it be forced upon the discipline? I reckon it could be the former if anything. One aspect I disagreed with Toner was in the introduction saying it is inaccessible as I reckon it has been. A lot of universities will take you on with no previous study of Latin/Greek and don't Oxford and Cambridge now have a separate course for those people as opposed to demanding one of the languages at A-levels as a must.

Reply 1781

The Lyceum

13

Original post by SirMasterKey

Well as I said, it was a skim through parts and then I read the last chapter which is what really got me thinking.

How do you think it will (if it indeed does) break apart? Are we naturally breaking away now or will it be forced upon the discipline? I reckon it could be the former if anything. One aspect I disagreed with Toner was in the introduction saying it is inaccessible as I reckon it has been. A lot of universities will take you on with no previous study of Latin/Greek and don't Oxford and Cambridge now have a separate course for those people as opposed to demanding one of the languages at A-levels as a must.

A mixture of both I think, I mean we're in a time of increased interdisciplinary research and the thing is, whilst we do really good in some areas as a discipline, in others Classics is rightly derided.

Look at the way some Classicists still treat the whole Greeks Vs Persians, marathon, Western Civ thing. Logically untenable angle but its been kept largely out of self flattery. This kind of thinking doesn't go down well with, say, someone who actually does understand the origins of modern European culture having studied the early medieval/renn period with a focus on Germanic and Slavonic incursions. Too much stuff we say doesn't wash and Classics will be held accountable largely for the false "cultural narrative" its constructed.

Also, as we get better in the stuff we are good at and more specialist then that's going to help break things too, though I suggest it will be slow.

I agree about access to Classics, in many ways its never been easier. Anyone with good grades can go and enrol at uni. We really need to encourage this. Unfortunately the current method of encouragement seems to be by pushing crap like reception, modules without the languages over the more technical stuff. Even out of the kids who come in with A level Lat/Greek its apparently very very rare for them to pick up a full set of technical skills in them nowadays, despite increased interest.

Its kind of too early to tell I think, but I do think a) we're moving towards more of an "ancient world" rather than "classics" model and b) its going to survive really well.

Reply 1782

username163092

19

Original post by jismith1989

Excellent, I was wondering what had happened to you. Have a good interrump.

So are you doing anything with yourself in the meantime? Just taking some time off to recuperate? I guess you can also glance at some Latin from time to time to make things easier for when you get back too, if you're gonna be studying it; I'm happy to help, if ever you need it.

Yeah, I got ill and my TSR life got affected. :sad:

I'm going to be working full time, some pretty sweet career stuff is going on in my life right now. It's probably not what the doctor ordered, but I'm over the moon at the opportunity. I've already started the Latin textbook they'll be using (Manchester have now switched to Reading Latin). I'm finding it okay at the moment, but I haven't done any for a while as I'm waiting for glasses and the small print of the book makes my eyes hurt. :sad:

Original post by *Corinna*

congratulations :smile:

It must be nice having a fresh start :smile:

so now what do you do this year? do you still have to sit final exams?

Thanks, but it's not really something to celebrate haha. It's just a relief to be able to focus on my health. Well, not entirely - I have to do the whole year over again, despite doing okay in the 1st semester. No, my interruption took affect a fair while before exams. I just sit, twiddle my thumbs and think up ways to get my GP to give me a clean bill of health in September! :smile:

Reply 1783

RedDragon

14

Original post by Aemiliana

Yeah, I got ill and my TSR life got affected. :sad:

I'm going to be working full time, some pretty sweet career stuff is going on in my life right now. It's probably not what the doctor ordered, but I'm over the moon at the opportunity. I've already started the Latin textbook they'll be using (Manchester have now switched to Reading Latin). I'm finding it okay at the moment, but I haven't done any for a while as I'm waiting for glasses and the small print of the book makes my eyes hurt. :sad:

Thanks, but it's not really something to celebrate haha. It's just a relief to be able to focus on my health. Well, not entirely - I have to do the whole year over again, despite doing okay in the 1st semester. No, my interruption took affect a fair while before exams. I just sit, twiddle my thumbs and think up ways to get my GP to give me a clean bill of health in September! :smile:

A twenty year old bottle of Scotch perhaps. :biggrin:

Reply 1784

skunky x

14

Original post by Aemiliana

Yeah, I got ill and my TSR life got affected. :sad:

I'm going to be working full time, some pretty sweet career stuff is going on in my life right now. It's probably not what the doctor ordered, but I'm over the moon at the opportunity. I've already started the Latin textbook they'll be using (Manchester have now switched to Reading Latin). I'm finding it okay at the moment, but I haven't done any for a while as I'm waiting for glasses and the small print of the book makes my eyes hurt. :sad:

Thanks, but it's not really something to celebrate haha. It's just a relief to be able to focus on my health. Well, not entirely - I have to do the whole year over again, despite doing okay in the 1st semester. No, my interruption took affect a fair while before exams. I just sit, twiddle my thumbs and think up ways to get my GP to give me a clean bill of health in September! :smile:

I use Reading Latin at Reading. We all despise it.
It gives you all these lovely exercises and then no answers so you have no idea if you've done anything right..
And the stories they use are rubbish. I despise the sight of it's green and read cover...

Reply 1785

RedDragon

14

Hmm all this talk of Latin makes me regret not taking more of an interest in it at secondary school. Alas I was such a fool when I was younger. :facepalm:

Benefit of hindsight I guess.

Reply 1786

faber niger

17

Original post by Aemiliana

Yeah, I got ill and my TSR life got affected. :sad:

I'm going to be working full time, some pretty sweet career stuff is going on in my life right now. It's probably not what the doctor ordered, but I'm over the moon at the opportunity. I've already started the Latin textbook they'll be using (Manchester have now switched to Reading Latin). I'm finding it okay at the moment, but I haven't done any for a while as I'm waiting for glasses and the small print of the book makes my eyes hurt. :sad:

Aha, that's good, enjoy it! EDIT: erm, the sweet career stuff, not your illness. :biggrin:

Yes, they used RL when I was there (but then switched, and presumably decided that the other book was too faddish and crappy, so switched back). I quite like it, even if it is a bit austere and confuzzling at times (not to mention eye-straining, as you say). I really need glasses too, but I can just about manage without them, so am not gonna bother until the need comes. Apparently people who wear glasses do better in job interviews though (because employers tend to assume that they're more intelligent)!

Original post by RedDragon

Hmm all this talk of Latin makes me regret not taking more of an interest in it at secondary school. Alas I was such a fool when I was younger. :facepalm:

Benefit of hindsight I guess.

We were all fools when we were younger; some, myself included, still are. You can always pick some up in the senility of your twenties though, if you have the urge (and the time). Didn't you teach yourself Biblical Hebrew a while back?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 1787

placenta medicae talpae

Original post by jismith1989

I just re-accepted you as a member. Why did you scarper? Was it purposeful? Surely not! :eek:

Oh, and, err, thanks for the rep.

I sought to escape from a wish to remind myself that I have very little do with classics, and that I was only ever here to steal everyone else's education :biggrin:

If you want the honest story of why I returned: I wanted to know what the 'Classics Society Pictures' were, and it told me that I had to be a member to see them!
So I thought, "Oh, erm ... erm ... okay then," and then joined.

If you want the dishonest story of why I returned: disregard all of the above, and think of a tale involving many dragons, armour-clad troops, and some token beetroot.

Rep where rep is due, as I ~~always~~ ~~sometimes~~ never say.

Original post by jismith1989

We were all fools when we were younger; some, myself included, still are. You can always pick some up in the senility of your twenties though, if you have the urge (and the time). Didn't you teach yourself Biblical Hebrew a while back?

I take my hat off to you, sir. And then put it back on again.
:hat2:

, in fact.
A healthy balance of the utmost seriousness and slight stupidity makes the best broth.
Until all of those blasted cooks come and spoil it.

If there was some independent Biblical Hebrew-learning going on, I would like to know how it was went about!

And one final thing, if anyone here is looking for classics-based procrastination:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vzxv9/Greek_Myths_Tales_of_Travelling_Heroes/

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 1788

SirMasterKey

18

Original post by placenta medicae talpae

And one final thing, if anyone here is looking for classics-based procrastination:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vzxv9/Greek_Myths_Tales_of_Travelling_Heroes/

Why show me that link. I've finished my ancient history exam now so can't even use that as an excuse to watch it. Not too sure how relevant it is to my Latin and Early Modern Norwich exams. :tongue:

Reply 1789

RedDragon

14

Original post by jismith1989

We were all fools when we were younger; some, myself included, still are. You can always pick some up in the senility of your twenties though, if you have the urge (and the time). Didn't you teach yourself Biblical Hebrew a while back?

Still in the process of learning it, a Law degree does not provide me with much oppurtunity to study throughout the academic year, so I am relying on the five month holiday I am enjoying now to pick it up again...provided I have passed my exams. :smile:

Reply 1790

Aesc

11

Original post by placenta medicae talpae

And one final thing, if anyone here is looking for classics-based procrastination:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vzxv9/Greek_Myths_Tales_of_Travelling_Heroes/

Expired by the time I woke up this morning - worst feeling ever :frown:

Reply 1791

faber niger

17

Original post by Aesc

Expired by the time I woke up this morning - worst feeling ever :frown:

If you want a classics fix, you can still listen to Melvyn Bragg (et al.) discuss Troy, mythical and historical, which was on Radio 4 this morning. They didn't really discuss anything that anyone with a basic knowledge of the subject wouldn't already know though.

Reply 1792

hockeyjoe

15

Hi there

I was wondering if any classicists would be able to help me out?

My girlfriend is in the process of choosing her degree and is leaning towards classics/english literature/art history. Classics is her preferred option but she has no experience with the Latin or Greek language. The fact that most classics courses recquire one or both of them is a bit of a hindrance. I was wondering if you guys knew of any similar kind of degree that still has all the fundamentals, but minus the emphasis on the languages? I anticipate that this may be difficult as my understanding is that the crux of most classics courses is the language aspect, but still, any help would be greatly appreciated! :smile:

Reply 1793

medbh4805

20

Original post by hockeyjoe

Hi there

I was wondering if any classicists would be able to help me out?

My girlfriend is in the process of choosing her degree and is leaning towards classics/english literature/art history. Classics is her preferred option but she has no experience with the Latin or Greek language. The fact that most classics courses recquire one or both of them is a bit of a hindrance. I was wondering if you guys knew of any similar kind of degree that still has all the fundamentals, but minus the emphasis on the languages? I anticipate that this may be difficult as my understanding is that the crux of most classics courses is the language aspect, but still, any help would be greatly appreciated! :smile:

Wait, what exactly do you mean, do you want degrees in which you can start the languages ab initio , or do you mean Classics degrees which don't require you to learn Latin and Greek at all? :s-smilie:

Reply 1794

skunky x

14

Just had an e-mail that the essay I did on Greek inscriptions has been marked.

I have a feeling it is not very good *distressed*

Reply 1795

toronto353

19

Original post by hockeyjoe

Hi there

I was wondering if any classicists would be able to help me out?

My girlfriend is in the process of choosing her degree and is leaning towards classics/english literature/art history. Classics is her preferred option but she has no experience with the Latin or Greek language. The fact that most classics courses recquire one or both of them is a bit of a hindrance. I was wondering if you guys knew of any similar kind of degree that still has all the fundamentals, but minus the emphasis on the languages? I anticipate that this may be difficult as my understanding is that the crux of most classics courses is the language aspect, but still, any help would be greatly appreciated! :smile:

It's not really the case. I'll answer this question later as I'm off to do some revision now, but I will answer this in as much detail as I can. If I haven't answered by tomorrow, quote me to remind me. :smile:

Reply 1796

RedDragon

14

Original post by skunky x

Just had an e-mail that the essay I did on Greek inscriptions has been marked.

I have a feeling it is not very good *distressed*

You'll be fine. There's nothing you can do about it now, until you get it back, so take a deep breath and relax. :wink:

Reply 1797

hockeyjoe

15

Original post by medbh4805

Wait, what exactly do you mean, do you want degrees in which you can start the languages ab initio , or do you mean Classics degrees which don't require you to learn Latin and Greek at all? :s-smilie:

ones which don't recquire any knowledge of latin or greek languages prior to the start of the degree

Reply 1798

Aesc

11

Original post by hockeyjoe

ones which don't recquire any knowledge of latin or greek languages prior to the start of the degree

There's quite a range. Some will have a degree such as "Classical Studies", which might doesn't have as much language focus; but even Oxford, Cambridge, Durham will take applicants for a straight Classics degree without Latin A-level. Running down the Guardian league table, the ones which don't seem to need Latin for "Classics":
Cambridge, Oxford, St Andrews, Glasgow, Durham, Liverpool, Nottingham, Reading, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 1799

hockeyjoe

15

Original post by Aesc

There's quite a range. Some will have a degree such as "Classical Studies", which might doesn't have as much language focus; but even Oxford, Cambridge, Durham will take applicants for a straight Classics degree without Latin A-level. Running down the Guardian league table, the ones which don't seem to need Latin for "Classics":
Cambridge, Oxford, St Andrews, Glasgow, Durham, Liverpool, Nottingham, Reading, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, Swansea

alright cheers for that

The Classics Society Mk II

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