Congratulations to the Greek left! The movement against austerity....

It's quite simple. Saying something like 'austerity is needed' requires no justification or coherent well thought out argument to support it as it is mainstream accepted doctrine. This then just creates a cascade effect where it get to the point where a ludicrous claim that has very little actual evidence to back it up becomes an accepted truth among the majority of the population. It gets repeated so much that it makes its way into established 'fact' in most people's heads. 'Austerity is working and is the only way' is an example of one.

Anyone who states something that isn't accepted dogma has to go through the rigorousness process of justifying their view point(which all they all should). Then even if they do they still get treated as looneys.

That isn't a conspiracy theory. It is how politics works in liberal democracies.

Why would you say you're biased?

Party it is to make sure I don't get to self confident in what I think. Force me to question myself etc.

I want left wing libertarian stuff to work. I tend to have a selection bias in looking for ways in proving how they can work and or haved worked. Don't spend enough time looking at the criticism or looking for eveidense that say proves that I am wrong.

Plus eveyone is bias to some extent, even the most rigorous of people.

Austerity should be applied case by case, in my opinion. The problem arises when one dominant economy, for whom austerity works alright, is trying to impose the same system upon a union (which is more geopolitical than economic) which comprises different economies with diffrent components and functioning systems, for whom the austerity model might not work but is being imposed on them regardless. Germany might need austerity, but Europe doesn't. It is simply not working. And the fact that Germany needs austerity is still quite open for debate you know. It's not like an end all be all policy that is supported by the majority across the entirety of the German political spectrum... Let's not forget that there are many economical policies and systems that have yielded vastly greater amounts of growth and profit than austerity, or if not, they've at least been much smoother and palatable on the social/humanitarian scale.

I don't think you can claim the eu is primarily geopolitical when it has a shared currency. It is primarily economic That is the issue of the eu. Because of the shared currency you cannot so things case by case. If Greece had its own currency there is a lot more it could do than it currently is. But because of the euro it is beholden to Germany.

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That's true. I think what I mean't to say was the reason of its creation/existance is primarily geopolitical. But yeah, the only way it can work is if the there was no euro, or if the economies were intergrated even more, with common fiscal policy and etc. But better yet, just scrap austerity. Implement a model that works for everyone not one that serves the dominator

Ths solution to the crisis was actual rather simple.. mutualized debt. When you look at the Euro as a currency it's weakened but it's not like there's been a massive run on it, had debt also been collectively pooled and Euro-bonds issued then the market would have judged the whole as little worse than the USA. That's essentially why Detroit can be bankrupt (even New York almost went bankrupt in the 70's) while the market judges the nation as a whole as okay.

But then that's far too much integration for the EU. Sure they want to be constantly moving toward integration but who knows what that means and the date of that is somewhere over there

True and it's something that's divided nations (Spain, France and Italy are pushing for it, Germany, Austria and Netherlands have said no). But it's the only credible long term solution that i see.

Myths and Misconceptions about the Greek Crisis.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite3_1_08/12/2011_417884

http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~sskaperd/SkaperdasMythsWP1011.pdf

https://greekleftreview.wordpress.com/2011/11/12/seven-myths-about-the-greek-debt-crisis/

This is for all of those claiming that Greece should've never joined the euro, lived beyond their means like a spoilt child, and all the like. For your own information and education, I implore you all to read at least one of the links provided above. There is undeniable evidence that throughout the crisis, Greece has undergone a disproportionate amount of scapegoating for problems that were not necessarily of her own fault. It's much better to make the crisis seem like entirely Greece's own fault, than to have potential flaws in the European Concept exposed to international markets.
The fact that there is even a Wikipedia page dedicated to the Misconceptions in regards to the Crisis must be saying something. Frankly, I am surprised at just how persistent these myths have proven to be. For the love of god people, inform yourselves.

Thank you.

I don't see this collapse personally. Europe can cope with a Grexit and there's no sufficient political pressure anywhere albeit Italy and France don't seem to have the political will to get round the bend.

Hello, Norman Tebbit. I'm glad you could make it. If you'd like to take a seat, I'm sure Milton Friedman will be pleased to pour you a cup of tea.

Yeah, I hate to be in their company. It's a question of motives. Tebbit is against the whole EU concept, which I'm not. I'm against the single currency being uploaded before its time. If the EU were a truly integrated and sovereign entity, it could work. However, it wasn't when they introduced the Euro and it is even less so now.

Let's say that Le Pen comes to power in France in 2017. Her first announcement is that she now has a mandate to walk France at minimum out of the Euro and Schengen and if the EU won't agree, she will leave that to.

With France out, other major EU countries will inevitably follow suit and the mad Euro scheme will come to an abrupt end. There will probably be a major banking crisis and a major international crisis as currencies move violently around, etc. France will also probably withdraw from many other international agreements. Germany will move to total economic dominance as the Mark reasserts itself. The UK economy will slump badly because of all the banking interlocks, but might recover quickly if the government do the right things. Possibly the whole EU project might end to. It will be difficult to see the point of Brussels if Paris is not part of it.

The extremist right will surge in some other countries and there may be extensive political turmoil, particularly in some regions, that will become even more desperate to separate from their host countries.

Syriza's victory in Greece should be a role model for us here in the UK