The NBA 2019-20 Thread - Free agency is mad - Westbrook to Houston, CP3 to OKC!?

I think you're grossly underestimating KAJ's dominance. It's pretty awful analysis for you to dismiss him on the basis he had 'Magic passing to him'. I think you take into account far too much the players surrounding a legend. I could just as easily say 'Magic had excellent players to finish off his passes'. Thus you see how pointless that statement is. The Showtime Lakers needed KAJ's prolific scoring just as much as Magic's passing.

Besides that, aside from 1 extra Finals MVP, Kareem beats out Magic in almost everything else:

When Kareem Abdul-Jabbar left the game in 1989 at age 42, no NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more Most Valuable Player Awards, played in more All-Star Games or logged more seasons. His list of personal and team accomplishments is perhaps the most awesome in league history: Rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champion, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time Teams. He also owned eight playoff records and seven All-Star records. No player achieved as much individual and team success as did Abdul-Jabbar.

That and Kareem was prolific at both ends, defensively and offensively. He is ranked as the NBA's third leading all-time rebounder (17,440). He is also the third all-time in registered blocks (3,189), which is even more impressive because this stat had not been recorded until the fourth year of his career (1974). After claiming his sixth and final MVP in 1980, he continued to average above 20 points in the following six seasons, including 23 points per game in his 17th season at age 38.

15 times All NBA, 11 times All Defensive, 19 times All Star. Those aren't cherry picked from select points in his career. That is his entire career.

I agree with you on one point. That is, had Magic played longer, no doubt he would've definitely gone on to have an even more outstanding career and yeah, probably would've ousted KAJ as number 2. But the fact is, he didn't, He did not have the continued dominance at both ends that KAJ had.

I really can't see how you can sacrifice all of that because 'KAJ was only FMVP in 2 out of 6!!!'.

Also Kobe > Magic. -.-

In your dreams bruh

This guy better than Magic? What?

45% FG averaging 25 PPG over 20 seasons... brick layer?

This guy better than Magic? What?

45% FG averaging 25 PPG over 20 seasons... brick layer?

If i wanted my house built i know who I'm calling. Just saying

I think Kobe has the record for most bricks all time in the post season... GOAT

If i wanted my house built i know who I'm calling. Just saying

Savage, leave eden alone man you're breaking his heart!!!

Savage, leave eden alone man you're breaking his heart!!!

Okay yeah i better be careful man. Might throw a brick through my window in a sec

Lmaaaoooo okay that was actually funny

But if you take a look at the tail of those chips they really didn't, and the fact Magic averaged 20-10 shows that too, he actually averaged MORE PPG than KAJ. FMVP is a big deal even if you'd like to dismiss it. And we'll also have to disagree on selecting prime championship runs as cherry picking or as I prefer career defining.

I guess when it comes down to it we just have different definitions of GOAT, you look at the numbers and regular season accolades and I prefer to look at the post season performances. That wasn't my analysis that was someone else's which I simply agree with , it took Magic for him to actually go and win those chips, and he was the FMVP for one of them only. I think James Worthy was the other with Magic the MVP for 3. Can we even use age as an excuse since MJ was in his mid 30s when he won his second 3 peat as the main guy? I don't think so.

Anyway I haven't seen those or studied the performances of the 70's so I won't pretend to know the reasons he was so mediocre when it came to actually winning. Maybe he had a terrible team around him. FWIW his longevity is worth something to me but consistent dominance without winning doesn't warrant the #2 spot ever.

MJ pretty much dominated the regular season for over a decade, and well before his first chip, but ultimately it came down to what he did in the playoffs. 6 Finals and 6 Finals MVP's are what make him the GOAT and push him beyond everyone else.

Another interesting point to note personally I think the ONLY reason MJ's position as the GOAT is so rock solid is those 6 FMVP, if he relinquished even 2 of those to Pippen or Rodman it would be far less stable.

Something we agree on!

Following on from this mammoth discussion, let's expand this beyond me and @Aristotle's' Disciple Common question everyone asks any other basketball fan, so here it is:

Who is your all time top 10 and why?

Have fun

wait was there a previous question?!?

Favourite dunks!?

awww no **** I missed that

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. LeBron
5. Kobe
6. Magic
7. Duncan
8. Bird
9. Hakeem
10. Bill Russell

Shaq at 3, Kobe at 5?