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anti-psychiatry
Is psychiatry bunk?
Not all psychiatric conditions have a biological/physiological basis. Illness, by definition, is a physiological abnormality in the body. When you have the common cold, you may have a runny rose, or cough. It's these physical symptoms which denote the physiological abnormalities. This isn't apparent in "mental illness".
Mental illnesses aren't even researched properly. Homosexuality was considered once a "mental illness", but was VOTED OUT as one by American psychiatrists. No research was undertaken to determine whether homosexuality should be considered a mental illness.
Also, how do you define a "mental illness"? One common definition is not adhering to the societal mores of your community. OK, that's fair enough. But what if a Pakistani man killed his daughter in Britain as an honour killing? Such an act isn't consistent with British societal mores. Is he "mentally ill"? If a woman wore a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia, is she "mentally ill" since exposing flesh may not be consistent with Saudi Arabian mores? In this sense, it is difficult to objectively determine "mental illness". If one takes geriatrics as an example, geriatric conditions aren't related to culture or society. A geritaric condition would present the same symptoms in the UK, or Russia, or Malawi or Australia. A geriatric condition often would have some kind of physiological basis too.
Not all psychiatric conditions have a biological/physiological basis. Illness, by definition, is a physiological abnormality in the body. When you have the common cold, you may have a runny rose, or cough. It's these physical symptoms which denote the physiological abnormalities. This isn't apparent in "mental illness".
Mental illnesses aren't even researched properly. Homosexuality was considered once a "mental illness", but was VOTED OUT as one by American psychiatrists. No research was undertaken to determine whether homosexuality should be considered a mental illness.
Also, how do you define a "mental illness"? One common definition is not adhering to the societal mores of your community. OK, that's fair enough. But what if a Pakistani man killed his daughter in Britain as an honour killing? Such an act isn't consistent with British societal mores. Is he "mentally ill"? If a woman wore a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia, is she "mentally ill" since exposing flesh may not be consistent with Saudi Arabian mores? In this sense, it is difficult to objectively determine "mental illness". If one takes geriatrics as an example, geriatric conditions aren't related to culture or society. A geritaric condition would present the same symptoms in the UK, or Russia, or Malawi or Australia. A geriatric condition often would have some kind of physiological basis too.
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Firebird
And what would the physiological cause of this "mental illness" be?
1. But what if a Pakistani man killed his daughter in Britain as an honour killing? - Not necessarily mentally ill but has been brought up with ridiculous beliefs. Dangerous to society, specifically his female relatives, and should be locked away forever. Race is irrelevant here however but honour killings don't seem to be reported in Christianity.
2. If a woman wore a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia, is she "mentally ill" since exposing flesh may not be consistent with Saudi Arabian mores? No, she's not mentally ill, she's exercising her right to do what she wants, but she's bloody stupid for doing it in a place where they persecute women and treat them as the inferior sex.
Why aren't they mentally ill? The problem is how does one determine "mental illness" on such a basis?
I think I'd define mental illness as a chemical inbalance in the brain which causes problems in behaviour - problems meaning acting out of the ordinary, doing things which are not normal/natural to human beings. In the case of bulimia, a mental illness, the person concerned makes themselves vomit after eating, which is not normal or natural. However mental illnesses shouldn't be confused with the person being psychotic. I'll use the case of bulimia again: the patient is perfectly sane, yet has a mental problem which makes them do one abnormal thing.
Again, what is the physiological basis for bulimia? In that sense, you cannot call it an illness.
Stupidity, which is the problem in both your examples, is not recognised as a mental illness, even stupidity to the point of having an IQ below 70 (and in some cases, deemed too stupid to look after your own children - ridiculous - animals manage just fine), because there isn't a cure unfortunately!
There isn't a "cure" for schizophrenia. That doesn't mean schizophrenia isn't a mental illness.
zooropa
Is psychiatry bunk?
Not all psychiatric conditions have a biological/physiological basis. Illness, by definition, is a physiological abnormality in the body. When you have the common cold, you may have a runny rose, or cough. It's these physical symptoms which denote the physiological abnormalities. This isn't apparent in "mental illness".
Mental illnesses aren't even researched properly. Homosexuality was considered once a "mental illness", but was VOTED OUT as one by American psychiatrists. No research was undertaken to determine whether homosexuality should be considered a mental illness.
Also, how do you define a "mental illness"? One common definition is not adhering to the societal mores of your community. OK, that's fair enough. But what if a Pakistani man killed his daughter in Britain as an honour killing? Such an act isn't consistent with British societal mores. Is he "mentally ill"? If a woman wore a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia, is she "mentally ill" since exposing flesh may not be consistent with Saudi Arabian mores? In this sense, it is difficult to objectively determine "mental illness". If one takes geriatrics as an example, geriatric conditions aren't related to culture or society. A geritaric condition would present the same symptoms in the UK, or Russia, or Malawi or Australia. A geriatric condition often would have some kind of physiological basis too.
Not all psychiatric conditions have a biological/physiological basis. Illness, by definition, is a physiological abnormality in the body. When you have the common cold, you may have a runny rose, or cough. It's these physical symptoms which denote the physiological abnormalities. This isn't apparent in "mental illness".
Mental illnesses aren't even researched properly. Homosexuality was considered once a "mental illness", but was VOTED OUT as one by American psychiatrists. No research was undertaken to determine whether homosexuality should be considered a mental illness.
Also, how do you define a "mental illness"? One common definition is not adhering to the societal mores of your community. OK, that's fair enough. But what if a Pakistani man killed his daughter in Britain as an honour killing? Such an act isn't consistent with British societal mores. Is he "mentally ill"? If a woman wore a bikini on a beach in Saudi Arabia, is she "mentally ill" since exposing flesh may not be consistent with Saudi Arabian mores? In this sense, it is difficult to objectively determine "mental illness". If one takes geriatrics as an example, geriatric conditions aren't related to culture or society. A geritaric condition would present the same symptoms in the UK, or Russia, or Malawi or Australia. A geriatric condition often would have some kind of physiological basis too.
Not sure on psychiatry (cant even spell it lol) but I think, "mental illness" to me, is an 'abnomality of the mind'. Maybe people disagree with that... I don't think/ know if there is an all round satisfactory definition though... Maybe that could help? Or is one's definition anything out of the ordinary to them, or anything but normal to them? Then we start 'what is normal'? etc.
Firebird
An inbalance in the brain perhaps. I'm not sure, I'm not a medic!
OK I'm not a doctor, but I've never heard of psychiatric illness causing common cold symptoms. The good majority of people with common cold symptoms would get them via a virus. Even still, I doubt any there'd be any physiological basis for such a thing, which I doubt is common.
I would say they are stupid rather than mentally ill. As I said, I define mental illness as an inbalance in the chemicals in the brain which leads to abnormal behaviour.
One definition of mental illness is not adhering to social norms. How do you know an "imbalance of the chemicals in the brain" wouldn't lead to this?
Causes of bulimia include: bullying for being "overweight", stress, pressure, a number of things which are completely unrelated to what it seems to be about (ie weightloss). Being sick is not nice, and I would regard it as an illness to want to make yourself sick - although this probably isn't the best example as I don't want to trigger any ED recoverers
OK, so what physiological causes are responsible for "stress" or "pressure" or distress for being bullied for being overweight? What biological things would cause the mental processes that lead to bullimia.
There is medication though. My comment about stupidity was a bit of a joke... It could be regarded as a mental illness, but not as I've defined; it is a genetic problem.
There is medication for HIV/AIDS, but no cure exists. So what?
zooropa
OK I'm not a doctor, but I've never heard of psychiatric illness causing common cold symptoms. The good majority of people with common cold symptoms would get them via a virus. Even still, I doubt any there'd be any physiological basis for such a thing, which I doubt is common.
I have. Psychiatric problems can manifest themselves in the form of pyhsical illness. You can talk your way to illness if you try hard enough. In a similar way, psychiatric well-being can help an ill person make a quicker recovery.
The links between mental depression and physical illness cannot be disputed.
Psychiatric problems can manifest themselves in the form of pyhsical illness. You can talk your way to illness if you try hard enough. In a similar way, psychiatric well-being can help an ill person make a quicker recovery.
A placebo effect. So what? Again, the physiological cause, please?
That's ultimately what it boils down to. A psychiatric condition cannot be labelled an illness, if there is no physiologial abnormality.
I think the idea of psychiatry, and why people disagree with it, is because it turns a mental state into an illness and seeks a clinical cure, where perhaps psychological cures would be better.
I think prescribing mind altering drugs as a cure for depression should be reserved for very extreme cases and I therefore conclude that people are being over-medicated in this area. I blame overly middle-class doctors for this, most of whom have no idea about the reality of mental illness.
I think prescribing mind altering drugs as a cure for depression should be reserved for very extreme cases and I therefore conclude that people are being over-medicated in this area. I blame overly middle-class doctors for this, most of whom have no idea about the reality of mental illness.
Definitions of psychiatric illness on the Web:
A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others. Mental illness is distinct from the legal concept of insanity.
So from that definition basically its an excuse for anybody who doesn't conform to the majority of society?
A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others. Mental illness is distinct from the legal concept of insanity.
So from that definition basically its an excuse for anybody who doesn't conform to the majority of society?
I disagree. Depression is an illness.
What?
Again, what is the physical cause of depression? Does it just "exist" just so?
All human action and thought must have some kind of biological basis. Depression must have some physical cause, if it is to be labelled as an "illness".
Depression may be the disease, but there is no proven illness. There is a differene between the two.
Elipsis
Definitions of psychiatric illness on the Web:
A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others. Mental illness is distinct from the legal concept of insanity.
So from that definition basically its an excuse for anybody who doesn't conform to the majority of society?
A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others. Mental illness is distinct from the legal concept of insanity.
So from that definition basically its an excuse for anybody who doesn't conform to the majority of society?
Yes. That was (partly) my point.
It would be difficult to objectively determine "mental illness" in this regard. Are goths "mentally ill"? Were punks in the 1980's? They both hold values that the majority of society doesn't share.
yawn
An excuse to do or be what? 
Well you could use such an illness to not go to prison for commiting a crime. Perhaps another way of putting it is that such illnesses are societys 'get out card' for people who are different in a way that they dont understand.
Ive never heard of anybody being treated for mental illness and being successfully cured.
Elipsis
Well you could use such an illness to not go to prison for commiting a crime. Perhaps another way of putting it is that such illnesses are societys 'get out card' for people who are different in a way that they dont understand.
Do I detect cynicism from this post?
Elipsis
Ive never heard of anybody being treated for mental illness and being successfully cured.
Since you yourself discovered (post #12) that the term 'mental illness' included a person's thinkingg, feeling, moods and ability to relate to others - which all encompass depression; depression can be cured when the depressive is well enough to realise that the cure is within their own hands.
zooropa
What?
Again, what is the physical cause of depression? Does it just "exist" just so?
All human action and thought must have some kind of biological basis. Depression must have some physical cause, if it is to be labelled as an "illness".
Depression may be the disease, but there is no proven illness. There is a differene between the two.
Again, what is the physical cause of depression? Does it just "exist" just so?
All human action and thought must have some kind of biological basis. Depression must have some physical cause, if it is to be labelled as an "illness".
Depression may be the disease, but there is no proven illness. There is a differene between the two.
Ah, you may be right. According to this mental illnesses are biologically based brain disorders.
http://www.nami.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Inform_Yourself/About_Mental_Illness/About_Mental_Illness.htm
But I'm still confused because if you read on it has this to say about Major Depression:
There is no single cause of major depression. Psychological, biological, and environmental factors may all contribute to its development. Whatever the specific causes of depression, scientific research has firmly established that major depression is a biological brain disorder.
Quite confusing as far as actual cause is concerned.
I'd have to agree with the notion that psychiatry IS Bunk.
I totally reject the idea that throwing drugs at 'mental illness' is a thing that works.
One of my favourite things was the fact that when they were originally testing drugs to use in the treatment of schitzophrenia, they were found to be no more affective that meer air and water!! Plus the people who were treated on meer air and water, had a lower relapse rate too than those who were taking drugs.
There is no point in treating the symptons of mental illness, by covering them up with drugs, It doesnt address the actual causes.
Another thing that annoys me is the notion of ADHD.
Drugging up children is one of the most disgusting things going on, especially as everyone can't even make up their mind the true definitions of what it actually is. I think that kids will be kdis, and more parenting is actually the real cause behind this 'adhd'
I totally reject the idea that throwing drugs at 'mental illness' is a thing that works.
One of my favourite things was the fact that when they were originally testing drugs to use in the treatment of schitzophrenia, they were found to be no more affective that meer air and water!! Plus the people who were treated on meer air and water, had a lower relapse rate too than those who were taking drugs.
There is no point in treating the symptons of mental illness, by covering them up with drugs, It doesnt address the actual causes.
Another thing that annoys me is the notion of ADHD.
Drugging up children is one of the most disgusting things going on, especially as everyone can't even make up their mind the true definitions of what it actually is. I think that kids will be kdis, and more parenting is actually the real cause behind this 'adhd'
[QUOTE="Scotto" El="El"]
Another thing that annoys me is the notion of ADHD.
Drugging up children is one of the most disgusting things going on, especially as everyone can't even make up their mind the true definitions of what it actually is. I think that kids will be kdis, and more parenting is actually the real cause behind this 'adhd'
That is what a lot of people think - however it doesn't explain the causes of ADHD in children of 'good parenting', nor those who display the symptoms which are absent in their siblings. If bad parenting was the cause then all the children in the family would be expected to display the same symptoms since the cause would be due to environment rather than physiological causes.
--------------
I believe you can fully recover from a mental illness.
Once you have the 'insight' into what causes you to lapse, you can set about changing your reactions and attitudes to stressful life events that caused it initially.
Another thing that annoys me is the notion of ADHD.
Drugging up children is one of the most disgusting things going on, especially as everyone can't even make up their mind the true definitions of what it actually is. I think that kids will be kdis, and more parenting is actually the real cause behind this 'adhd'
That is what a lot of people think - however it doesn't explain the causes of ADHD in children of 'good parenting', nor those who display the symptoms which are absent in their siblings. If bad parenting was the cause then all the children in the family would be expected to display the same symptoms since the cause would be due to environment rather than physiological causes.
--------------
Firebird
I don't think you can ever fully recover from a mental illness, because there's always that mindset that your brain will remember where you thought this and did that etc.
I don't think you can ever fully recover from a mental illness, because there's always that mindset that your brain will remember where you thought this and did that etc.
I believe you can fully recover from a mental illness.
Once you have the 'insight' into what causes you to lapse, you can set about changing your reactions and attitudes to stressful life events that caused it initially.
yawn
That is what a lot of people think - however it doesn't explain the causes of ADHD in children of 'good parenting', nor those who display the symptoms which are absent in their siblings. If bad parenting was the cause then all the children in the family would be expected to display the same symptoms since the cause would be due to environment rather than physiological causes.
--------------
I believe you can fully recover from a mental illness.
Once you have the 'insight' into what causes you to lapse, you can set about changing your reactions and attitudes to stressful life events that caused it initially.
--------------
I believe you can fully recover from a mental illness.
Once you have the 'insight' into what causes you to lapse, you can set about changing your reactions and attitudes to stressful life events that caused it initially.
For kids of good parenting to have ADHD its just an easy excuse for Why am i a good parent yet my child is still naughty?
And you can never fully recover from a mental illness as lapses are far more likely to happen again and again.
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