TSR&#x27;s Person of the Year Award!

Northumbrian

Yes, but we don't believe that by giving up everything we have will get us to a socialist society.

He could help get closer to it by using the few hundred thousand pounds he paid for the villa to say... provide scholarships for inner city children, feed and clothe a homeless man, or to provide new equipment for the health service ... etc etc etc...

though it may not be the whole solution, it certainly may help the goals that socialists strive for. To claim otherwise is a cop out and excuse to engage in the personal luxuries we all desire.

Northumbrian

And George has no life except the life he devotes to getting us closer to that society. So if he takes a few weeks break a year then I really don't mind.

Translated: "I dont mind if he is a hypocrite."

Reply 42

He could help get closer to it by using the few hundred thousand pounds he paid for the villa to say... provide scholarships for inner city children, feed and clothe a homeless man, or to provide new equipment for the health service ... etc etc etc

It's quite possible he wouldn't function as well if he didn't take a nice break like we all, as humans need. By the way, how do you know how much he paid for the villa?

Translated: "I dont mind if he is a hypocrite."

No, I don't believe he is a hypocrite. If he gave us his villa it wouldn't do nowt to change society. He is doing more for the cause by being elected than he would if he gave up all his worldly wealth.

Reply 43

President_Ben

15

Northumbrian

LOL ROFL!!! I was at the International Peace Conference on Saturday 10th December organised by the StWC and he received a standing ovation with the biggest cheer of the day.

Bet half of them were shouting %^&* off you ^@£

He's definitely unpopular in the wider anti-war movement. He just doesn't represent what anti-war means to a lot of people and his general being a populist and constrained politician holds little water with the traditional lefty groups.

I think it's 26!

Well, RUC looks massive with that kind of backing. I could get more people to join some kind of sham political party based on shagging, booze and rock for policies.

I have many criticisms of the SWP and have been asked to join for nearly 5 years now and never have. Yet they do a lot of good work, not only interesting socialist theory based forums, but work in many different campaigns.

Good work? Got to be kidding me... if good work is zero results and decline - yeah, great jobs people! Well done!

You dodn't understand. SWP most certainly is in RESPECT the Unity Coalition.

No, they really are kept apart... ask Lindsey yourself sometime if you get to have a chat with her... StWC may well have been a front for SWP but RUC is actually being held at arms length (because it is going to die even faster than the SWP)

Socialist Resistance isn't a group as such but a newspaper. The groups behind it are in RESPECT. They are the International Socialist Group and the Socialist Solidarity Network.

So, nobodies...

What do you base this on? I've been in RESPECT for 18 months and I've never come across the SWP doing anything of the sort. And the Socialist Worker is a very good, informative newspaper.

We'll see.

I'd be surprised if there was money for a campaign. Have you seen the accounts? It isn't a good sign of health when your originally auditors refuse your accounts and you get new ones who submit late... RUC is rabbit in the headlights of reality.

Northumbrian

Fortunately not even nutter like Workers Power believe that.

WP - about 8 people? Their youth group (Revo) is bigger and that is mostly because WP will buy the revo kids booze :biggrin:

In fairness, when it comes redistribution, socialists are driven by 'to each according to need, from each according to ability' and excess is still allowed, rationed by some process (woah, there is the big split in the left creeping in)

Socialism is meant to be bring wealth to all, rather than spread the poverty.

Reply 44

Northumbrian

It's quite possible he wouldn't function as well if he didn't take a nice break like we all, as humans need. By the way, how do you know how much he paid for the villa?

I have seen the villa on TV and I know property in Portugal... there is no doubt it is worth over 150k.

What a fatuous aregument ... he can take a break for free... there is no way to get around the fact that his owning a second holiday home is at odds with his ideaology. It is hypocrisy pure and simple.

Northumbrian

No, I don't believe he is a hypocrite. If he gave us his villa it wouldn't do nowt to change society. He is doing more for the cause by being elected than he would if he gave up all his worldly wealth.

Oh come now...

As I said, if he gave it up he could help more people achieve equality than if he didnt. Plain and simple.

And dont wriggle like that ... "he would do more if he were elected". So? he would do more if he were elected AND gave up his villa, and he would do more if he wasnt elected but STILL gave it up than if he did neither.

Reply 45

Bet half of them were shouting %^&* off you ^@£

Unfortunately for your prejudices, no they were not. http://www.traprockpeace.org/audio/george_galloway_10dec05.mp3

He's definitely unpopular in the wider anti-war movement.

What would that be then?

I have seen the villa on TV

Wow, you're like Sadie the Bra Lady.

What a fatuous aregument ... he can take a break for free... there is no way to get around the fact that his owning a second holiday home is at odds with his ideaology. It is hypocrisy pure and simple.

Second holiday home? He has one holiday home.

his general being a populist

How?

Well, RUC looks massive with that kind of backing. I could get more people to join some kind of sham political party based on shagging, booze and rock for policies.

So could I. You coudl write to the CPGB and tell them this.

Good work? Got to be kidding me... if good work is zero results and decline - yeah, great jobs people! Well done!

They help workers whenever there is a strike, they play crucial roles in united fronts which have curbed the rise of the BNP and rendered Tonly Bliar incapable of going into another Bush war.

No, they really are kept apart... ask Lindsey yourself sometime if you get to have a chat with her... StWC may well have been a front for SWP but RUC is actually being held at arms length (because it is going to die even faster than the SWP)

I've chatted with her several times and with John Rees. StWC was not a front. It was the broadest movement ever seen in the UK. And if it was a front and it achieved the biggest ever demos in UK history then how can you accuse the SWP of achieveing no results?

So, nobodies...

4 seperate revolutionary groups. Which ones don't support it? Socialist Party? Workers Power? AWL? Les than 1/4 of the size of out revolutionary left support. When was the last time you read SW? Yes it's biased, it's the paper of a political party but it is very well put together and covers things that never get reported in the mainstream media.

I'd be surprised if there was money for a campaign. Have you seen the accounts? It isn't a good sign of health when your originally auditors refuse your accounts and you get new ones who submit late... RUC is rabbit in the headlights of reality.

We managed to raise over 500 000 last year so I don't see this as a problem.

And dont wriggle like that ... "he would do more if he were elected". So? he would do more if he were elected AND gave up his villa, and he would do more if he wasnt elected but STILL gave it up than if he did neither.

This is not true. The combined number of revolutionar party members in england is about just under 10 000. Most of them are not well off. They haven't achieved much. You do not progress is a capitalist world if you do not play them at their own game to some extent. We are not in a socialist society so it is impossible to live a socialist life. Just like there are no truly Islamic society, therefore applying Sharia law in 2005 anywhere in the world is wrong in my opinion.

Reply 46

Northumbrian

Wow, you're like Sadie the Bra Lady.

Who the f#ck?

Northumbrian

Second holiday home? He has one holiday home.

Way to address the point.

Northumbrian

This is not true. The combined number of revolutionar party members in england is about just under 10 000. Most of them are not well off.

He is.

Northumbrian

They haven't achieved much.

Tell me about it. ALthough I am sure they have managed to drain public resources.

Northumbrian

You do not progress is a capitalist world if you do not play them at their own game to some extent.

Bollocks. His having a villa in portugal serves no purpose other than for him to enjoy a little luxury that most people cant afford. He could save lives by selling it. He chooses luxury over the lives of poor people around the world.

Northumbrian

We are not in a socialist society so it is impossible to live a socialist life.

That is simply not true. You can live according to socalist precepts without others doing the same.

Northumbrian

Just like there are no truly Islamic society, therefore applying Sharia law in 2005 anywhere in the world is wrong in my opinion.

That has no bearing. The analogy is weak at best.

Reply 47

Who the f#ck?

lol A north east bra maker who can tell a woman's size just by looking at her :wink:

He is.

He's comfortable. But he has no wife, doesn't see his children much, looks 10 years older than he should, is vilified by the press, gives more than a speech a day. Other things are more precious than money.

His having a villa in portugal serves no purpose other than for him to enjoy a little luxury that most people cant afford. He could save lives by selling it. He chooses luxury over the lives of poor people around the world.

That's simply untrue. He does so much for the cause and the movement that having a holiday home where he can relax for a month or so every year is something he deserves.

That is simply not true. You can live according to socalist precepts without others doing the same.

Yes, I know many people who do. But they still take a holiday if they can.

Reply 48

President_Ben

15

I've personally had a 'run-in' with Galloway. I'm not the first, won't be the last and get a bit of a pat on the back for doing it every so often...

Go to somewhere that is broadly lefty and anti-war like urban75 which has people from all elements of the left on it from the class war reds, blacks to various greens and a bunch of 'liberals' (as it were) and see what they think of Galloway on a poll...

Most strike support is done by the Unions who do them. There haven't been that many strikes of late... firefighters and the tube come to mind in the last few years. Don't think the SWP would do something as populist suiciding as to back those or it really will kill itself very soon.

StWC was one of the most successful fronts ever - and people put their hope it lasting and doing something but alas, it turned out that you can score a million plus people and then a month later, over 90% won't come back...

Probably the biggest arm of lefty media which does have an international base too is indymedia - and that's not even a classically class war 'red' thing.

Check your accounts... serious... you're not looking good!

Reply 49

Northumbrian

He's comfortable. But he has no wife, doesn't see his children much, looks 10 years older than he should, is vilified by the press, gives more than a speech a day. Other things are more precious than money.

I dont doubt that he is a zealot ... or crazy... but that doesnt change the fact that he actions are contrary to his principles.

Northumbrian

That's simply untrue. He does so much for the cause and the movement that having a holiday home where he can relax for a month or so every year is something he deserves.

Since when was it acceptable in soclialism to allow people to die in order to have a holiday home?

Northumbrian

Yes, I know many people who do. But they still take a holiday if they can.

If they spend money on it... that is money that could be used to save lives and people from abject poverty.

Reply 50

I've personally had a 'run-in' with Galloway. I'm not the first, won't be the last and get a bit of a pat on the back for doing it every so often...

I've met him several times and he's a perfectly pleasant man.

Go to somewhere that is broadly lefty and anti-war like urban75 which has people from all elements of the left on it from the class war reds, blacks to various greens and a bunch of 'liberals' (as it were) and see what they think of Galloway on a poll...

Unlike 'urban75' who are trying to represent the 'underground scene' the StWC represents the main body of antiwar opinion from faith groups, to political parties, to organisations, trade unions, military families etc. And George has their 100% backing.

StWC was one of the most successful fronts ever - and people put their hope it lasting and doing something but alas, it turned out that you can score a million plus people and then a month later, over 90% won't come back...

Are you referring to the biggest weekday protest in British history? :rolleyes:

Since when was it acceptable in soclialism to allow people to die in order to have a holiday home?

Again you abandon context to the detriment of your argument

Reply 51

Northumbrian

Again you abandon context to the detriment of your argument

Not at all - that is precisely the context. He could use the money to provide - say .... retroviral drugs for Africans... or give housing to the homeless in the UK...

he chooses not to. Thus, people die of AIDs and exposure who could have done otherwise.

Reply 52

President_Ben

15

Northumbrian

I've met him several times and he's a perfectly pleasant man.

Not perfectly pleasent beliefs but I'm sure he's a reasonable person all in all.

Unlike 'urban75' who are trying to represent the 'underground scene' the StWC represents the main body of antiwar opinion from faith groups, to political parties, to organisations, trade unions, military families etc. And George has their 100% backing.

Urban75 doesn't try and represent anything. It is pretty broad based and way larger and more media covered in the mainstream than any lefty board I've otherwise read about.

Are you referring to the biggest weekday protest in British history? :rolleyes:

StWC never recovered numbers folllowing the peak and probably never will unless something insane happens (and soon) like Iran or something...

Galloway - achievements, next to nil.

SWP, a bunch of loons on the fringe getting more fringe.

StWC, a front that had tremendous opportunity and messed up. Now disppearing into rapid obscurity.

--------------

Lawz-

Not at all - that is precisely the context. He could use the money to provide - say .... retroviral drugs for Africans... or give housing to the homeless in the UK...

he chooses not to. Thus, people die of AIDs and exposure who could have done otherwise.

And you bought that sandwich instead of giving you stop AIDS? Murderer :wink:

You're being mean to this person and using some loopy arguments that might hold to him but even to me and I'm no uber-socialist, just don't follow :p:

Reply 53

He could use the money to provide - say .... retroviral drugs for Africans... or give housing to the homeless in the UK...

Most people need a break to function properly He is probably the most active MP (whether you believe his actions are benefitting his constituents or not) So whatever he spends on his holidays he MORE than makes up for with devoting his life to the cause.

Urban75 doesn't try and represent anything.

Not according to their website

StWC never recovered numbers folllowing the peak and probably never will unless something insane happens (and soon) like Iran or something

They were never going to. But they set 3 demonstration records, set up a genuinely broad united front and gave birth to a new political coalition.

Galloway - achievements, next to nil.

He's been elected to parliament 5 times, has won 2 court cases, has won another out of court settlements, has been cleared of wrong doing in two different investigations into two different organisations, raised the profile of sanctions massively, saved the life of Mariam Hamza.....

SWP, a bunch of loons on the fringe getting more fringe.

Actuially the SWP are the least 'on the fringe' party in revolutionary politics in the UK. And they are not getting anymore extreme.

StWC, a front that had tremendous opportunity and messed up. Now disppearing into rapid obscurity

A broad united front that achieved huge breakthroughs and nearly stopped the war. Ha certainly prevented UK participation in any further wars in the near future. Gave birth to RESPECT. Recently around 1400 delegates made the jouirney down to London for the International Peace Conference with speakers from the UK, Iraq, USA and Iran. It was a temendous success and the next demo is in March.

Reply 54

Longshoredrift80

10

Anyway, back to the topic. I nominate Condi, cause she's sexy.

Reply 55

I nominate Condi, cause she's sexy.

eugh!

Reply 56

Jangliss

5

Whilst Galloway's interviews with Paxman and then Congress were certainly amongst my moments of the year (along with Pat Robinson losing his rag over Venezuela and GBushJr. not being able to get out of the Chinese press conference), I agree with time magazine's choice. Although Tony Blair's committee did write the report which inspired Live8...

True or false? - A socialist society would not be one in which people starved and were homeless while others owned second holiday homes.

True, but this isn't a socialist society yet, is it? In a socialist society, business wouldn't exist. That shouldn't stop a socialist from running a successful business in a capitalist society. I agree with you though: where are the Keir Hardies in 2005?

Reply 57

Jangliss

True, but this isn't a socialist society yet, is it?

Why is that relevant? If you truly believe that something is morally virtuous you dont wait for others agree and comply before you apply your chosen normative precepts. You lead, not follow.

Jangliss

In a socialist society, business wouldn't exist. That shouldn't stop a socialist from running a successful business in a capitalist society.

That's debateable. Regardless, my point is not about whether or not Mr. Galloway can run a business, my point is about how he applies his assets.

It is wholly inconsistent for a self-avowed socialist to spend hundreds of thousands on his own comfort and leisure when people are dying from starvation, neglect and illness around the world.

Reply 58

Longshoredrift80

10

Those poor, starving people! I shall go worry about them in my expensive holiday villa!

Reply 59