Fee waivers for poor students should be scrapped

Since people have recently found out which university they're going to there is a lot of talk about scholarships, bursaries and fee waivers...

I didn't know about the latter until recently, that people from a poorer background pay less to go to university. This would all be fine if you paid upfront .. but you don't.

I don't see why someone from a poor family should have less debt than me when we're earning the same wage. Is the payback system not in place to make sure you only pay the loan back when you can afford to?

why not contribute to the thread instead of negging me? most of the people posting seem to agree with me...

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 1

username1002982

14

As far as I understand it, the fee waiver system exists to encourage low income people to go to universities. As per usual with the education system, statistics and quotas are very important, so the more incentives you provide (even if they really aren't necessary) the more likely you are to have more less advantaged people going to university. Which is, don't get me wrong, a great thing but I agree with you in its otherwise futile nature.

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Reply 2

ed-

OP

13

I think there is already so much incentive though...

Someone with poorer parents than mine gets a loan worth thousands of pounds more than I get (that they potentially don't have to pay back), and they're entitled to bursaries and scholarships ...

And then my parents have to make up 1000 pounds in accommodation costs (first year at least) and give me £80 a week to live on even though my dad's retired so he has to work part time and my mom will probably follow suit soon enough.

Reply 3

username1002982

14

Original post by ed-

I think there is already so much incentive though...

Someone with poorer parents than mine gets a loan worth thousands of pounds more than I get (that they potentially don't have to pay back), and they're entitled to bursaries and scholarships ...

And then my parents have to make up 1000 pounds in accommodation costs (first year at least) and give me £80 a week to live on even though my dad's retired so he has to work part time and my mom will probably follow suit soon enough.

As someone who will probably be in the same situation as you, I understand! I suppose that it also encourages poorer students who may not be as aware of how the tuition fee system works. (I've seen a lot of people on TSR after the fee rise complaining that they can't afford £9 000 a year even though technically every first time domestic applicant can)

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Reply 4

Moosferatu

19

The grants and bursaries system is completely ****ed to be honest. But sssh, it's something we don't talk about.

Reply 5

Marcum

11

They shouldn't have any less debt than you, but surely they also need assistance to go to university and it is a selfish view to think that they shouldn't get it. We as a country are not very socially mobile; there is a stronger correlation between people's earnings as an adult and what their parents earned in the United Kingdom as opposed to countries such as Denmark and Australia. After all, there is no reason poor, intelligent people should not have the same chance to go to university as well-off people, they may need more support to get there but it will ultimately benefit society.

Reply 6

ed-

OP

13

Original post by Marcum

They shouldn't have any less debt than you, but surely they also need assistance to go to university and it is a selfish view to think that they shouldn't get it. We as a country are not very socially mobile; there is a stronger correlation between people's earnings as an adult and what their parents earned in the United Kingdom as opposed to countries such as Denmark and Australia. After all, there is no reason poor, intelligent people should not have the same chance to go to university as well-off people, they may need more support to get there but it will ultimately benefit society.

So how do fee waivers help get poor students to university when no one pays any loans back until they've left and can afford it?

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Reply 7

Copperknickers

15

Original post by ed-

Since people have recently found out which university they're going to there is a lot of talk about scholarships, bursaries and fee waivers...

I didn't know about the latter until recently, that people from a poorer background pay less to go to university. This would all be fine if you paid upfront .. but you don't.

I don't see why someone from a poor family should have less debt than me when we're earning the same wage. Is the payback system not in place to make sure you only pay the loan back when you can afford to?

It's not about fairness or who should have less debt than who, its about rectifying social problems. It encourages people to go to university who wouldn't otherwise because of economic concerns.

Reply 8

Manitude

20

I'm all for giving students from poor backgrounds enough money so they can rent accommodation and have food to eat, however when it comes to waiving tuition fees (which in my eyes shouldn't exist at all) that is paid by a loan every first time domestic applicant can get, I get a bit annoyed.

Reply 9

Marcum

11

Original post by ed-

So how do fee waivers help get poor students to university when no one pays any loans back until they've left and can afford it?

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My post didn't refer to fee waivers, it was more against those who don't believe poor students should go to university and get help to go to university.

Reply 10

username1002982

14

Original post by Copperknickers

It's not about fairness or who should have less debt than who, its about rectifying social problems. It encourages people to go to university who wouldn't otherwise because of economic concerns.

Why not stick to giving them the money for maintenance grants and living costs? Fee waivers are comparatively unnecessary when needs based and reduce the amount of money you could give that would help with stuff like outreach programs or the actual university course.

Original post by Marcum

They shouldn't have any less debt than you, but surely they also need assistance to go to university and it is a selfish view to think that they shouldn't get it. We as a country are not very socially mobile; there is a stronger correlation between people's earnings as an adult and what their parents earned in the United Kingdom as opposed to countries such as Denmark and Australia. After all, there is no reason poor, intelligent people should not have the same chance to go to university as well-off people, they may need more support to get there but it will ultimately benefit society.

Original post by Marcum

My post didn't refer to fee waivers, it was more against those who don't believe poor students should go to university and get help to go to university.

Nobody on this thread is advocating that, no fear!

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Reply 11

neunundneunzig

1

Students from poor families had to deal with financial instability, sub-par living conditions, sub-par education and so on, and you're quibbling about them paying a bit less in university fees? They're far less likely to be able to go to university in the first place purely because they were unlucky enough to be born poor. Show some sympathy.

Reply 12

rickfloss

17

Original post by neunundneunzig

Students from poor families had to deal with financial instability, sub-par living conditions, sub-par education and so on, and you're quibbling about them paying a bit less in university fees? They're far less likely to be able to go to university in the first place purely because they were unlucky enough to be born poor. Show some sympathy.

what about student from abusive families?

why dont students with mental or physical disabilities get fee waivers?

Unthinkable

Reply 13

username1129244

15

Original post by neunundneunzig

Students from poor families had to deal with financial instability, sub-par living conditions, sub-par education and so on, and you're quibbling about them paying a bit less in university fees? They're far less likely to be able to go to university in the first place purely because they were unlucky enough to be born poor. Show some sympathy.

I have to agree with this. They are disadvantaged quite a bit already.

I'll admit though, the student finance isn't perfect. There are flaws such as a situation, where the parents refuse to support their son/daughter at university so they are in effect poorer than the kids who come from poor families with bursaries.

Reply 14

neunundneunzig

1

Original post by rickfloss

what about student from abusive families?

why dont students with mental or physical disabilities get fee waivers?

Unthinkable

https://www.gov.uk/disabled-students-allowances-dsas/overview
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/nottingham-potential/widening-participation/inreach/lookedafterchildrenandcareleavers.aspx
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/open_days_events_and_visiting/milton_keynes_oxfordshire_buckinghamshire/incare.html

Reply 15

username1129244

15

Original post by rickfloss

what about student from abusive families?

why dont students with mental or physical disabilities get fee waivers?

Unthinkable

Students with disabilities can financial support.

As for students from abusive families, they may be in care therefore get financial support (I think atleast). Otherwise if they aren't in care, how can you officially tell?

Reply 16

rickfloss

17

Original post by neunundneunzig

https://www.gov.uk/disabled-students-allowances-dsas/overview
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/nottingham-potential/widening-participation/inreach/lookedafterchildrenandcareleavers.aspx
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/open_days_events_and_visiting/milton_keynes_oxfordshire_buckinghamshire/incare.html

disables students allowance has got to do nothing with fee waivering,

none of your links are relavent, care leavers are not disabled

Reply 17

neunundneunzig

1

Original post by rickfloss

disables students allowance has got to do nothing with fee waivering,

none of your links are relavent, care leavers are not disabled

Disabled students get extra money for their university expenses, so I assume they can save up the surplus to later pay off their fees if they want?

And care-leavers are likely to be people who were previously in abusive families...

Reply 18

rickfloss

17

Original post by neunundneunzig

Disabled students get extra money for their university expenses, so I assume they can save up the surplus to later pay off their fees if they want?

And care-leavers are likely to be people who were previously in abusive families...

No they dont, they get given care, they get no money!!

if you assume, you make an ass out of u and me

Disabled students allowance is pathetic, maybe if they actually focused on helping to pay for the treatment required for the disability whilst at uni it would be much better

But hey, poor people shout louder then disabled people

Reply 19

MagicNMedicine

20

The problem with this argument is that some people are very hypocritical about it.

Young people get advantaged or disadvantaged all the way through their education depending on their parents' income. People from poorer backgrounds have far fewer opportunities that people from richer backgrounds do.

Generally those from richer backgrounds take the attitude that, well thats just the way it is, life isn't fair is it, those from poorer backgrounds should just suck it up and work hard and they will get there anyway.

But then when there's an advantage that goes the other way, that benefits those from poorer backgrounds, they see this as a big injustice.

Why don't those from richer backgrounds just say "I can get through this disadvantage, if I work hard I can achieve just as much as those with fee waivers, its down to me and my attitude". Much better than just sitting around whinging about injustice.

Fee waivers for poor students should be scrapped

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