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integration

this is pretty hard: (a2)+((2bx)2)dx\int\sqrt{(a^2) + ((2bx)^2)} dx

and I have no idea...
Reply 1
Original post by shawn_o1
this is pretty hard: (a2)+((2bx)2)dx\int\sqrt{(a^2) + ((2bx)^2)} dx

and I have no idea...

For an "undergraduate-level" question, this is not all that difficult. It is solved quickly using basic Core 3/4 knowledge.

Anyway, there are a variety of ways you can do this.

Firstly I would consider writing it in a simpler form:

Spoiler



You essentially now must evaluate:

Spoiler



Is there any kind of substitution that may be useful here?

Spoiler



Alternatively, are there any theorems you can use?

Spoiler



Alternatively again, dependant on which form you require your final answer, is there some way to get rid of the square root that would make this more approachable?

Spoiler



etc.. etc..

Hope this helps! :smile:
Reply 2
You're going to need to make a hyperbolic trig substitution.
Reply 3
Original post by Jkn
For an "undergraduate-level" question, this is not all that difficult. It is solved quickly using basic Core 3/4 knowledge.

Anyway, there are a variety of ways you can do this.

Firstly I would consider writing it in a simpler form:

Spoiler



You essentially now must evaluate:

Spoiler



Is there any kind of substitution that may be useful here?

Spoiler



Alternatively, are there any theorems you can use?

Spoiler



Alternatively again, dependant on which form you require your final answer, is there some way to get rid of the square root that would make this more approachable?

Spoiler



etc.. etc..

Hope this helps! :smile:



You do realise that most of your post contradicts this
Reply 4
Original post by TenOfThem
You do realise that most of your post contradicts this

No it doesn't.

It is solved easily used Core 3/4 knowledge as the two simplest methods are

Spoiler



The other methods are alternatives but that doesn't change the fact that it can be solved using the less-sophisticated methods... :tongue:
Reply 5
Original post by Jkn
No it doesn't.

It is solved easily used Core 3/4 knowledge as the two simplest methods are

Spoiler



The other methods are alternatives but that doesn't change the fact that it can be solved using the less-sophisticated methods... :tongue:


You suggest that this can be solved quickly using C3/4 knowledge

The substitution of atanu requires use of reduction which is not in C3/4
Reply 6
Original post by shawn_o1
this is pretty hard: (a2)+((2bx)2)dx\int\sqrt{(a^2) + ((2bx)^2)} dx

and I have no idea...


First arrange the integral

Unparseable latex formula:

\displaystyle \int \sqrt{a^2+(2bx)^2}dx=a\cdot \int \sqrt{1+\left (\frac{2b}{a}\cdot x\right)^2} \dx



and then substitute

2bax=sinhu\displaystyle \frac{2b}{a}\cdot x = \sinh u
dx=a2bcoshudu\displaystyle dx = \frac{a}{2b} \cosh u \cdot du
Reply 7
I'll note that the (simpler) integral

1x2+2bx+c\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{x^2 +2bx + c}} was the topic of a STEP I question (2008), and the examiners gave a pretty massive hint about the form of the solution.

IMHO it seems ridiculous to say this one is easily done using C3/C4 knowledge.
Reply 8
Original post by DFranklin
I'll note that the (simpler) integral

1x2+2bx+c\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{x^2 +2bx + c}} was the topic of a STEP I question (2008), and the examiners gave a pretty massive hint about the form of the solution.

IMHO it seems ridiculous to say this one is easily done using C3/C4 knowledge.


Phew

Thought I was going mad :biggrin:
Reply 9
Original post by TenOfThem
You suggest that this can be solved quickly using C3/4 knowledge

The substitution of atanu requires use of reduction which is not in C3/4

Original post by DFranklin
IMHO it seems ridiculous to say this one is easily done using C3/C4 knowledge.

What about:

Spoiler



...where the last result is part of the same formula booklet given to C3/C4 students. It can also be obtained by algebraic rearrangement. :tongue:
Reply 10
Original post by shawn_o1
this is pretty hard: (a2)+((2bx)2)dx\int\sqrt{(a^2) + ((2bx)^2)} dx

and I have no idea...

Have you done integration by substitution?
Let u=(a2)+((2bx)2)u=(a^2) + ((2bx)^2)
Differentiate dudx=0+(4bx)(2b)=8b2x\frac{du}{dx} = 0 + (4bx)(2b) = 8b^2 x
Make dx the subject dx=du8b2xdx= \frac{du}{8b^2 x}
Substitute u into the the integral and substitute dx too  (u1/2)(du8b2x)\int\ (u^{1/2}) (\frac{du}{8b^2 x})
 (u1/2)(du8b2x)=1.5(u1.5)8b2x+c=1.5(((a2)+((2bx)2)))1.58b2x+c\int\ (u^{1/2}) (\frac{du}{8b^2 x}) = \frac{1.5(u^{1.5})}{8b^2 x} + c = \frac{1.5( ((a^2) + ((2bx)^2) ))^{1.5}}{8b^2 x} + c
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Jkn



...where the last result is part of the same formula booklet given to C3/C4 students. It can also be obtained by algebraic rearrangement. :tongue:


Perhaps you do a different A Level to everyone else

that is in the FP3 section for edexcel
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Primus2x

 (u1/2)(du8b2x)=1.5(u1.5)+c\int\ (u^{1/2}) (\frac{du}{8b^2 x}) = 1.5(u^{1.5}) + c


what happened to the x
Original post by TenOfThem
what happened to the x
It was conveniently treated as a constant... (Or inconveniently if you actually want your answer to be correct...).
Original post by Primus2x
Have you done integration by substitution?
Let u=(a2)+((2bx)2)u=(a^2) + ((2bx)^2)
Differentiate dudx=0+(4bx)(2b)=8b2x\frac{du}{dx} = 0 + (4bx)(2b) = 8b^2 x
Make dx the subject dx=du8b2xdx= \frac{du}{8b^2 x}
Substitute u into the the integral and substitute dx too  (u1/2)(du8b2x)\int\ (u^{1/2}) (\frac{du}{8b^2 x})
 (u1/2)(du8b2x)=1.5(u1.5)8b2x+c=1.5(((a2)+((2bx)2)))1.58b2x+c\int\ (u^{1/2}) (\frac{du}{8b^2 x}) = \frac{1.5(u^{1.5})}{8b^2 x} + c = \frac{1.5( ((a^2) + ((2bx)^2) ))^{1.5}}{8b^2 x} + c


x is a variable
Reply 15
it's ok I just substituted 2bx with a*tan(u) and got my answer... (it really did take me that long to figure out, I guess my maths A* was a fluke after all)

the question actually asked me to evaluate a definite integral with 0 and π as the limits so I still got a really long answer anyway

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