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Holocaust: did 6 million really die?

OP

Really? I know quite a few people of Jewish ancestry but none of them are 'pure'. Some of them only have a Jewish grandparent or one Jewish parent. There are also hundreds of examples of celebrities of mixed Jewish and other ancestry so I'm not sure where you are coming from at all here.

In contrast, there are other cultures less keen on mixing. For example, if you go to South Korea (rural parts) you'll see an example of a relatively homogeneous society.

Yes that's quite true, lots of Jews have moved out of their group and moved into the other group. They are generally non-practising Jews. When you say Jews I exclude these people.

Reply 181

viddy9

16

Around 5.5 million Jews died, but others, including Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Homosexuals and Blacks were killed too, bringing the total up to 11 million.

Reply 182

Telnet

OP

Original post by viddy9

Around 5.5 million Jews died, but others, including Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Homosexuals and Blacks were killed too, bringing the total up to 11 million.

The 6 million number is symbolic. Even pro official holocaust theory source site this:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/four-million-01.html

The 5 million non-Jews number is also symbolic. Jewish holocaust scholars wanted to come up with a number that didn't reserve German camp deaths for Jews only but wanted to keep the stated Jewish number higher.

Given that Auschwitz has reduced its official death toll from 4.2 million to 1.1 million, the 6 million number does not make mathematical sense. This alone reduces the 6 million by half.

That is why I don't understand why people are banding these numbers around as if they are facts.

Facts require a basis in reality as opposed to a construct in a collective mind.

I would say that the real questions are how many died and what they they die of. My findings are that 250,000 to 300,000 died in German civilian camps and that they died of a number of diseases, and mainly from a typhus epidemic. My sources for this number is the International Red Cross, the International Tracing Service and the German cable between the SS in Berlin and the heads of concentration camps showing running death tolls dated 23rd September 1943 submitted as evidence in USA v. Pohl at Nuremberg.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 183

KillZionofascism

Over 10 million people mostly white slavic Europeans were killed by Bolshevik Jews, but we aren't allowed to know this because it's "anti-Semitic" just a tactic Jewish supremacists use to silence Jewish crimes. It's the same with the slave trade, they make it so the Jewish involvement in slavery goes ignored and they paint it purely as a white Christian crime. Look up the Jewish role in the Armenian genocide. Jews seem to have a long history of being involved in genocide, while calming to be victims of it. PS. Aushwits has a swimming poolPlease watch David Cole's documentary, he is Jewish and goes through the camps picking the official story apart.They only allowed him to go off tour because he's Jewish.

Reply 184

Old_Simon

12

When Eichmann was captured, interrogated, tried and executed, he had all the numbers, facts and figures to hand and provided a full account to the Israelis. The numbers are a matter of record.

Reply 185

Sir Fox

18

Original post by Telnet

Given that Auschwitz has reduced its official death toll from 4.2 million to 1.1 million, the 6 million number does not make mathematical sense. This alone reduces the 6 million by half.

There were several hundred concentration camps, how exactly does that number not make sense? Just because the Soviets twisted the numbers doesn't mean the Western account is wrong.

I would say that the real questions are how many died and what they they die of. My findings are that 250,000 to 300,000 died in German civilian camps and that they died of a number of diseases, and mainly from a typhus epidemic. My sources for this number is the International Red Cross, the International Tracing Service and the German cable between the SS in Berlin and the heads of concentration camps showing running death tolls dated 23rd September 1943 submitted as evidence in USA v. Pohl at Nuremberg.

Luckily, we have Eichmann's testimony, pre- and post-war census numbers, Nazi government records that demonstrate how the number was easily feasible, we have the Wannsee Protokoll, and we have gas chambers that, all together, proof that jews and other camp inmates were systematically gassed, shot and murdered in other ways, and that the number of jews killed stands somewhere between 5 and 6 million. In total, 'only' about half of them in the camps. The rest died on marches, in mass shootings etc.

Next time, try harder.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 186

anarchism101

17

Original post by Telnet

Given that Auschwitz has reduced its official death toll from 4.2 million to 1.1 million, the 6 million number does not make mathematical sense. This alone reduces the 6 million by half.

4 million was the Soviet number, which was never widely accepted among Western scholars, who tended to have an absolute maximum estimate of around 2.5 million and even the upper end of this was largely due to testimonies from senior Nazis themselves who'd overestimated the amount killed.

It has also never been seriously claimed that six million Jews were killed in the extermination camps. Just under six million Jews were killed by the Nazis in total, but only around half of those in the extermination camps, the rest being killed in the 'Holocaust by bullets' or by the general conditions of privation brought on them by the Nazis.

Reply 187

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by Sir Fox

There were several hundred concentration camps, how exactly does that number not make sense? Just because the Soviets twisted the numbers doesn't mean the Western account is wrong.

Luckily, we have Eichmann's testimony, pre- and post-war census numbers, Nazi government records that demonstrate how the number was easily feasible, we have the Wannsee Protokoll, and we have gas chambers that, all together, proof that jews and other camp inmates were systematically gassed, shot and murdered in other ways, and that the number of jews killed stands somewhere between 5 and 6 million. In total, 'only' about half of them in the camps. The rest died on marches, in mass shootings etc.

Next time, try harder.

There was also the railways timetables. The Nazis tried to destroy the evidence, but they never unite got around to destroying those records.

There will always be an argument over the exact number. but the fact remind that in a civilised part of the world there was mass murder on a horrific scale.

I tend to find that for a lot if holocaust deniers it's some sort of wierd code. By denying it, it's most like they're giving a Coded 'I agree with it.'

You only have to look on TSR to see how many fruit loops are out there who still buy into the Protocols of the elders of Zion and a Jewish banking conspiracy.

Reply 188

nimrodstower

2

Original post by Telnet

Why is it forbidden to ask this question?

It is not forbidden to ask the question, it is forbidden to deny the holocaust in Germany. That being said , it is absolutely stupid to ask such a question, as the evidence is overwhelming. I can only deduce that you are a fool or anti-semitic to pose the question.

Reply 189

Oldcon1953

9

Original post by Telnet

The context was originally set by war propaganda, so one should not be talking about context, one should be talking about objective clear analysis of the source information available. All context and preconceived ideas are just prejudice that distort objective perception.

The civilians may be trembling because of another set of shooters in the distance who they are running from. The soldier in the photo appears to be aiming at some people in the distance and not the the civilians so this is more plausible than the general explanation for this photo.

To try and argue something to do with the Nazi's is such and such a way because they tried to do something as cruel as possible is just fiction. Its ridiculous. People don't just wake up and say "you know what, today I'm going to do things as cruel and horrible as possible". Yes its in humans nature to do horrible things to some type of gain which is a horrible despicable part of human nature, but they only go as far as required to get a gain.

This idea that German's were some sick doctors always torturing people with their instruments is TV sensationalist fiction.

If this women being threatened from a shooter in the opposite direction she would instinctually seek cover BEHIND the devil with the rifle.

Reply 190

username851717

18

This guy could write the next script for an Indiana Jones sequel/prequel hmmm...

Reply 191

imtelling

4

No, roughly 13 million died in the nazi camps. Roughly 6 million Jews and 7 million non Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#cite_note-69

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 192

GlobalistSmasher

Do you people ever question what you're told? so they say 6 million were killed in camps, what proof of there is this? where are all the bodies? oh wait apparently they gassed Jews, then burned their bodies. Timely process to kill 6 million people? Come on. Anyone who has seen David Cole's documentary or been to he camps will know those not gas chambers. They are not air tight chambers, the doors open both ways for crying out loud.

Reply 193

the bear

20

Original post by GlobalistSmasher

Do you people ever question what you're told? so they say 6 million were killed in camps, what proof of there is this? where are all the bodies? oh wait apparently they gassed Jews, then burned their bodies. Timely process to kill 6 million people? Come on. Anyone who has seen David Cole's documentary or been to he camps will know those not gas chambers. They are not air tight chambers, the doors open both ways for crying out loud.

this is so sad.

Reply 194

GlobalistSmasher

What about the genocide by the Soviets? who just so happen to have been largely Jewish. People point to Stalin, but look at everyone behind him. All Jews.

Reply 195

Sir Fox

18

Original post by GlobalistSmasher

What about the genocide by the Soviets? who just so happen to have been largely Jewish. People point to Stalin, but look at everyone behind him. All Jews.

Yes? Who? Back your conspiracy theory up with facts. Who were the people behind Stalin and where is the evidence that they were Jewish?

Reply 196

Kallisto

Entertainment Forum Helper

22

Even if the number of Jews who died in times of holocaust is not exactly 6 million, there were over millions of Jews who were killed in any case. Why is it important to know the concrete number? no matter whether 10,000, 100,000 or 1000,000, mass murder is mass murder, thus it is a mass crime.

Reply 197

Chi019

5

Original post by Old_Simon

When Eichmann was captured, interrogated, tried and executed, he had all the numbers, facts and figures to hand and provided a full account to the Israelis. The numbers are a matter of record.

It's also a matter of record that one of the US Judge Edward Van Roden, who was involved in investigating war crimes, wrote about how torture was used to gain confessions. For example:

All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair.

One of the things I find curious is that the 6 million figure was cited decades before WWII and re-occurs in a number of speeches warning about what could happen to European, or Russian jews.

There is also a suggestion it has its origins in the Hebrew text of the Torah prophesies. See Ben Weintraub: "The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism", Cosmo Publishing, Washington 1995, page 3.

There are other factors in terms of contemporaneous evidence that point against some of the claims. For example, pathology reports found people had died of typhus. There was no evidence of death from poisonous gas. The typhus evidence is consistent with the British Intelligence intercepts from 1942 onwards which identified reports of typhus outbreaks in the camps, as well as deaths due to hanging and shooting (no mention of gas though).

Similarly, see the three-volume Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.

"In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ... In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83)…

"Not only the washing places, but installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 198

Chi019

5

Original post by Kallisto

Even if the number of Jews who died in times of holocaust is not exactly 6 million, there were over millions of Jews who were killed in any case. Why is it important to know the concrete number? no matter whether 10,000, 100,000 or 1000,000, mass murder is mass murder, thus it is a mass crime.

Except the International Red Cross, who delivered parcels to the camps, found no evidence of mass murder.

‘In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 … In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorized to stay in each camp …’ (Vol. III, p. 83).”

Similarly, British Intelligence intercepts from 1942 onwards picked up reports of typhus and disease sweeping the camps as the main causes of deaths in the camps. Many Germans also died as resources ran out towards the end of the war. Similarly, pathology reports of victims identified deaths from typhus - no evidence of anyone being killed by poisonous gas.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 199

Sir Fox

18

Original post by Chi019

One of the things I find curious is that the 6 million figure was cited decades before WWII and re-occurs in a number of speeches warning about what could happen to European, or Russian jews.

Where? Sources.

There is also a suggestion it has its origins in the Hebrew text of the Torah prophesies. See Ben Weintraub: "The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism", Cosmo Publishing, Washington 1995, page 3.

Great, next thing you'll present the bible code?

There are other factors in terms of contemporaneous evidence that point against some of the claims. For example, pathology reports found people had died of typhus. There was no evidence of death from poisonous gas.

Source.

The typhus evidence is consistent with the British Intelligence intercepts from 1942 onwards which identified reports of typhus outbreaks in the camps, as well as deaths due to hanging and shooting (no mention of gas though).

Of course there has been typhus, no one ever doubted that.

Holocaust: did 6 million really die?

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