The Ultimate England Thread II

Why?

There have been several managers with different personalities, tactics and approaches. The common factor in every tournament performance has been the specific players, and the way they've been coached from youth, and the culture.

Your response to this phenomenon is that it's just all those managers' faults and nothing to do with the players as apparently the manager is there to, I quote "make the players look better". And then say it's silly to suggest otherwise. The solution is simply to get the best manager, after the failures of the best foreign managers, the best domestic managers, promotion from within, and going for less glamorous names to change the players' naivety and fragility.

Do you see how there were several things in the above which was odd now?

Not necessarily. Vardy, Kane, Alli and Rose were among the top ten performers last PL season (or thereabouts). so it's naive to say that they weren't good enough to get past the likes of Russia, Slovakia and Iceland. In previous years when the league the best in the world - world class England players weren't even able to get to Euro 2008. The issue has been managers trying to shoehorn players from big clubs in and not giving those from lesser clubs chances. There's also the issue of not sticking to a style, so players can't really gel.

The best domestic managers certainly haven't been picked, if that's what you're implying. Unless of course you're referring to Shteve, Woy, Big Sam and Southgate as the best there is. Southgate frankly shouldn't have even been on whatever shortlist there was. I wouldn't really call Capello and Eriksson(?) top foreign names either.

You're actually being serious when you say Sven and Capello weren't the two biggest available names in football? Sorry but should you even be commenting on this after dropping that bombshell?

People cry out for internal progression, promoting people up, and McClaren had been Sven's assistant after taking Boro to a European final. And like Sven or not (I don't), he was a huge success at England went not looking at it through xenophobic glasses and took them to heights they're not used to. Remember England on average are group stage-level, when they even qualify. He took them to 3 quarters in a row, losing to the winners, then being knocked out on penalties twice.

Roy had tonnes of international experience and if he hadn't got the job, there would be a clamour asking why he's not been given the chance.

Sven was a huge name who was going to be Manchester United manager, after unimaginable success at Lazio and taking Benfica of all teams to a European Cup final.

There are many problems, but the players are one of them. We're not talking about how they perform in the culture of the Premier League, but in England, which are vastly different experiences evidently. It's naive to say that they should be beating certain 'small' or 'crap' teams just because England have players that perform for their club. They're surrounded by non-English players at their club after all.

Sven had won Serie A once and a few Coppa Italias, I wouldn't really call him a massive name. Capello was bigger but he still wasn't the biggest. He'd won two trophies in the previous decade.



I don't so that's irrelevant. Agreed that Sven was clearly the biggest success, but comparing the English group of players to the ones in other groups, saying that not making the knockout rounds is England's level is stupid.



Idc if there would have been clamour but he had just failed at Liverpool.



No he wasn't lol



I don't think it's naive to say superior players should be expected to beat inferior ones.

Like England were going to be anything short of their most dismal under Garth Southgate.

I really don't understand how when you can select so many players from both Liverpool and Spurs, two teams who have very similar pressing triggers, how hard it can be for the manager to implement a decent high pressing game, which defends from the front and creates chances. Its not like it needs coaching per se, thats what you get the players doing week to week when they are not on international duty. We actually have a decent number of players currently working at club level in good systems, its really not that much of a leap to appoint a manager who is capable of implementing a system somewhat similar to those systems. Follow the Spanish model, if a large number of your players are involved in a successful style a club level week in week out, use a variant of that system.

- Sven won Serie A with Lazio. They last won in the 70s. In his first two seasons he got them to the final of whichever European trophy they were in. Then in their first season in the Champions League they topped their first group undefeated, topped their second group and reached the quarter-finals. With Lazio.

- In the last decade, Capello took Roma from 6th to the title, and they finished runner-up twice. In their debut Champions League season they failed to reach the quarters on goal difference, and got them to the second group stage the next season. This despite debt. He then went to Juventus and won the title both seasons there. Went to Real Madrid, going through an infamous drought of trophies, and won the title immediately. Not a big manager?

- I suggest you look at England's record. You will see they average around group stage, if they even qualify. Their players at the time is irrelevant - if you live in England, you'd be led to believe that nearly every two years England have a good squad of players capable of challenging for something.

- Yes, around 2001 or 2002 Sven was a top name and was going to be Fergie's replacement. Alex had anounced he was going to retire. 'lol'.

- Yes it is incredibly naive to say 'superior players' simply 'should' beat 'inferior players'. You have an entire season's and European Championship's worth of results staring you in the face to show you this. This is not how football works.

It sounds like you're of young age. I don't mean to be rude but you don't seem to know about the state of football around the turn of the century. There's nothing wrong with not knowing everything, you know. This is just the internet, not a roleplaying battleground where you try to convince everyone you're omniscient.

x

Judging from the length of the reply and the multiple quotes, I think you misunderstand where I stand. (Since I can safely assume it's further arguing.)

You commented on something I said, but I mentioned that I noticed you didn't know key bits of info about the subject, you were unfamiliar with the state of Euro football around 2001 and beyond. You didn't even know about Fergie and Sven. So you've no input to give. Our discussion has been concluded.

Good you know when you've been beaten.

I'm relieved you've declared this out loud. Had you not, there was great danger it wouldn't be true.

I'd suspected you were one of those nutty forum arguers who spend their time creating internet arguments, a means to claim 'victories' for self-esteem boosts. But congratulations on what no doubt just so happens to be a 100% win record.

When you talk nonsense, I'm happy to take you to task on it.