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    I find this strange how we hear that businesses complain of skills shortage in development and yet computer science graduates have the highest unemployment rate higher than graduates in arts subject? Am I missing something here?

    Here's a link
    http://www.software.ac.uk/blog/2013-...ter-scientists
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    One major problem is, they aren't good enough for tech, and mostly don't have the practical and teamwork skills for IT. So they're left in the middle. Underperforming for tech, not as good as the nongrads/prof routes/poly grads for IT. Obviously some fit right in [to both areas], but a lot don't. Nobody in IT wants a pompous ass with theoretical skills who isn't 100% committed to his path. They do a cs degree then apply to things ranging from programming to sysadmin to chip design all at the same time. Whereas somebody with a CCNP or RHCE is obviously invested heavily in that specific field.
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    In my experience, that's not true. Lots of my IT student friends had lots of job offers. In fact, the number of graduate vacancies in IT and telecoms has risen by 77% over the past seven years so I am not sure what this research is based on.
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    (Original post by samba)
    One major problem is, they aren't good enough for tech, and mostly don't have the practical and teamwork skills for IT. So they're left in the middle. Underperforming for tech, not as good as the nongrads/prof routes/poly grads for IT. Obviously some fit right in [to both areas], but a lot don't. Nobody in IT wants a pompous ass with theoretical skills who isn't 100% committed to his path. They do a cs degree then apply to things ranging from programming to sysadmin to chip design all at the same time. Whereas somebody with a CCNP or RHCE is obviously invested heavily in that specific field.
    So the reason is that Computer science graduates don't have software development skills?
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    So the reason is that Computer science graduates don't have software development skills?
    Development skills for what? I'm sure they do, but software development is just one niche in a massive industry.

    (Original post by mad vlad)
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    I'm sure you'll have an opinion.
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    IT careers require real passion and dedication even obsession. A lot of people in TSR go to uni to do comp sci as if they are going to study ancient history or something. Most people with the right mindset are already doing stuff from an early age. This is one field where a CV needs to be packed with demonstrable experience.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    IT careers require real passion and dedication even obsession. A lot of people in TSR go to uni to do comp sci as if they are going to study ancient history or something. Most people with the right mindset are already doing stuff from an early age. This is one field where a CV needs to be packed with demonstrable experience.
    So basically to conclude to get a job after a Computer science degree you basically have to be a code monkey from an earlier age whereas with other fields you could pretty much get in without much effort. Therefore, if a Computer science grad doesn't have side projects then they will be pretty much doomed I suppose which therefore explains the high unemployment rate
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    That is a shocker
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    (Original post by TheCareersGuy)
    In my experience, that's not true. Lots of my IT student friends had lots of job offers. In fact, the number of graduate vacancies in IT and telecoms has risen by 77% over the past seven years so I am not sure what this research is based on.
    Well, I'm a Computer science graduate and I can't seem to find the jobs your talking about, most of them ask for 3-5+ years experience across a number of programming languages (PHP, JAVA, C,C++, Python, Ruby on Rails) Which although I have knowledge of but don't have years of working experience
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    I find this strange how we hear that businesses complain of skills shortage in development and yet computer science graduates have the highest unemployment rate higher than graduates in arts subject? Am I missing something here?

    Here's a link
    http://www.software.ac.uk/blog/2013-...ter-scientists

    (Original post by samba)
    Development skills for what? I'm sure they do, but software development is just one niche in a massive industry.



    I'm sure you'll have an opinion.
    Comp Sci (and the people that study it) as a degree discipline pisses me off sometimes.

    It's a generalist degree that trains you in a thin veneer of everything, so that after 3 years, you know how an operating system works and how to do basic for loops in a piece of code. It does not qualify you to do anything. A couple of modules does not an expert make. What employers are looking for is a level of dedication and expertise from the people they're hiring. Software developers are highly in demand, but what are not in demand are apprentice software developers that take 4 weeks to write a 2 day piece of code, don't know how to interpret requirements and read a design document, and haven't got the first clue about delivering projects and working in the real world.

    It frustrates me that people, especially from more traditional universities, see: good honours degree + skills shortage = £££££££ This is not a true reflection of the real world at all. Similarly, it annoys me that the same people don't consider less traditional disciplines in IT. I personally think that you have to start specialising your skills in this field at an early age to progress. Yes, it closes doors, but if you pick sensibly, you can end up with essentially a job for life and rapid career progression. Programming is boring, in my personal opinion. As is working with DB's and web development. Some people find this interesting, so I'm not going to criticise people for wanting to get into these (relatively financially rewarding) fields. However, there is more out there than this, but you have to specialise and commit to it. Infosec/Cyber is an area that is grossly under-resourced at the moment. Companies are offering silly money for people with the right skills in this area, but yet so few people are even considering it because it doesn't fit with the cookie cutter Comp Sci graduate prospectus. Half the trouble here is that if you're smart and have good A-Levels and are into IT, you're funnelled in to the Comp Sci path, especially where top unis are concerned, yet these courses teach you very little in the way of practical employability, skills and certainly don't give you any specialism, which causes you then to miss out on the opportunity to pursue specialist careers, as, ironically, you get pipped to the post by people like me, from (comparatively) lowly universities doing non-traditional, practical degrees.
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    Well, I'm a Computer science graduate and I can't seem to find the jobs your talking about, most of them ask for 3-5+ years experience across a number of programming languages (PHP, JAVA, C,C++, Python, Ruby on Rails) Which although I have knowledge of but don't have years of working experience
    Maybe you are looking in the wrong places. What have you done in your job search so far?
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    Well, I'm a Computer science graduate and I can't seem to find the jobs your talking about, most of them ask for 3-5+ years experience across a number of programming languages (PHP, JAVA, C,C++, Python, Ruby on Rails) Which although I have knowledge of but don't have years of working experience
    Loads of companies are hiring new grads, where have you been looking?

    One place to look is careers fairs for CS departments at universities. A lot of departments publish lists of the companies which attended past fairs, most of whom are presumably hiring new grads.

    Also company websites are not always great places to apply, I recommend finding recruiter email addresses and directly emailing them. The recruitment page for my job lists a lot of desirable 'requirements' I don't satisfy, but I got the job anyway.
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    (Original post by TheCareersGuy)
    Maybe you are looking in the wrong places. What have you done in your job search so far?
    Most places are asking for a 2:1 but I obtained a 2:2, so that really reduces down the number of places I could apply for
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    (Original post by MUN123)
    Most places are asking for a 2:1 but I obtained a 2:2, so that really reduces down the number of places I could apply for
    Yes sadly it does but there are alternatives. Have you sent speculative letters to employers?
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Comp Sci (and the people that study it) as a degree discipline pisses me off sometimes.

    Infosec/Cyber is an area that is grossly under-resourced at the moment. Companies are offering silly money for people with the right skills in this area, but yet so few people are even considering it because it doesn't fit with the cookie cutter Comp Sci graduate prospectus. Half the trouble here is that if you're smart and have good A-Levels and are into IT, you're funnelled in to the Comp Sci path, especially where top unis are concerned, yet these courses teach you very little in the way of practical employability, skills and certainly don't give you any specialism, which causes you then to miss out on the opportunity to pursue specialist careers, as, ironically, you get pipped to the post by people like me, from (comparatively) lowly universities doing non-traditional, practical degrees.
    @madVlad


    what would you say to a compSci(Information security) degree? Or would you say a degree such as one Greenwhich offers (Computer forensics and ethical hacking) would be better. Really just looking for an opinion
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Comp Sci (and the people that study it) as a degree discipline pisses me off sometimes.

    It's a generalist degree that trains you in a thin veneer of everything, so that after 3 years, you know how an operating system works and how to do basic for loops in a piece of code. It does not qualify you to do anything. A couple of modules does not an expert make. What employers are looking for is a level of dedication and expertise from the people they're hiring. Software developers are highly in demand, but what are not in demand are apprentice software developers that take 4 weeks to write a 2 day piece of code, don't know how to interpret requirements and read a design document, and haven't got the first clue about delivering projects and working in the real world.

    It frustrates me that people, especially from more traditional universities, see: good honours degree + skills shortage = £££££££ This is not a true reflection of the real world at all. Similarly, it annoys me that the same people don't consider less traditional disciplines in IT. I personally think that you have to start specialising your skills in this field at an early age to progress. Yes, it closes doors, but if you pick sensibly, you can end up with essentially a job for life and rapid career progression. Programming is boring, in my personal opinion. As is working with DB's and web development. Some people find this interesting, so I'm not going to criticise people for wanting to get into these (relatively financially rewarding) fields. However, there is more out there than this, but you have to specialise and commit to it. Infosec/Cyber is an area that is grossly under-resourced at the moment. Companies are offering silly money for people with the right skills in this area, but yet so few people are even considering it because it doesn't fit with the cookie cutter Comp Sci graduate prospectus. Half the trouble here is that if you're smart and have good A-Levels and are into IT, you're funnelled in to the Comp Sci path, especially where top unis are concerned, yet these courses teach you very little in the way of practical employability, skills and certainly don't give you any specialism, which causes you then to miss out on the opportunity to pursue specialist careers, as, ironically, you get pipped to the post by people like me, from (comparatively) lowly universities doing non-traditional, practical degrees.
    Good to know.

    Hi, may I know the name of your degree please?

    Thanks
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Good to know.

    Hi, may I know the name of your degree please?

    Thanks
    BEng (Hons) Digital Forensics and System Security
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Comp Sci (and the people that study it) as a degree discipline pisses me off sometimes.

    It's a generalist degree that trains you in a thin veneer of everything, so that after 3 years, you know how an operating system works and how to do basic for loops in a piece of code. It does not qualify you to do anything. A couple of modules does not an expert make. What employers are looking for is a level of dedication and expertise from the people they're hiring. Software developers are highly in demand, but what are not in demand are apprentice software developers that take 4 weeks to write a 2 day piece of code, don't know how to interpret requirements and read a design document, and haven't got the first clue about delivering projects and working in the real world.

    It frustrates me that people, especially from more traditional universities, see: good honours degree + skills shortage = £££££££ This is not a true reflection of the real world at all. Similarly, it annoys me that the same people don't consider less traditional disciplines in IT. I personally think that you have to start specialising your skills in this field at an early age to progress. Yes, it closes doors, but if you pick sensibly, you can end up with essentially a job for life and rapid career progression. Programming is boring, in my personal opinion. As is working with DB's and web development. Some people find this interesting, so I'm not going to criticise people for wanting to get into these (relatively financially rewarding) fields. However, there is more out there than this, but you have to specialise and commit to it. Infosec/Cyber is an area that is grossly under-resourced at the moment. Companies are offering silly money for people with the right skills in this area, but yet so few people are even considering it because it doesn't fit with the cookie cutter Comp Sci graduate prospectus. Half the trouble here is that if you're smart and have good A-Levels and are into IT, you're funnelled in to the Comp Sci path, especially where top unis are concerned, yet these courses teach you very little in the way of practical employability, skills and certainly don't give you any specialism, which causes you then to miss out on the opportunity to pursue specialist careers, as, ironically, you get pipped to the post by people like me, from (comparatively) lowly universities doing non-traditional, practical degrees.
    Could provide any links regarding in-demand non-traditional fields in IT?

    Thank you
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    BEng (Hons) Digital Forensics and System Security
    Thanks a lot.
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    Computer science, where universities take an electrical engineering module and turn it into a degree.
 
 
 
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