'Cleveland police shoot dead 12 year old boy ' When will it end.
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Original post by goobypls
That's what I'm saying why can't we research into non killing bullets that can still put a person down momentarily.
Although if this were to happen it should only apply to children. Adults can be shot with proper bullets.
Although if this were to happen it should only apply to children. Adults can be shot with proper bullets.
If such a thing exists I would be all for it, as would the police I bet (makes it much easier to make the call of when to shoot if you aren't taking a life, and the psycological benifits). I really doubt such a thing can be made with current technology, sounds like the sort of thing taht would exist already if it was possible.
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
People are agreeing with me, you're moronic for condoning the life of a 12 year old child for a start. I'd like to see a 12 year old kid take a taser easily. There's a difference, if you expect to be tasered you can brace yourself to take impact. Tasers are very efficient, they are used in the US not just in the UK (not that you would know).
The kid also couldn't pull out a gun in time before being tasered. The distance was point blank range so they wouldn't miss. They didn't miss with the gun so they wouldn't miss with the taser. Simple.
The kid also couldn't pull out a gun in time before being tasered. The distance was point blank range so they wouldn't miss. They didn't miss with the gun so they wouldn't miss with the taser. Simple.
Because i'm sure firing a taser and gun are identical, explain to me more about your knowledge of firing both guns and tasers, congratulations you get another one of these!
Also i know tasers are used within the US, i lived there for a year during my university placement. Your going for a record, hes your third!
Its tragic the kid has died but it was a result of his own actions. If i was walking through a park and a kid randomly went into his pocket and pulled out a gun on me (if its looks like one i'll presume it is, i'm not going to wait until he shoots to find out its fake) i would probably be rolling across the floor. The kid was committing a serious offence and if this was in a state where people can legally carry guns it could have easily ended up being a civilian who shot the kid and not the police.
If i was in the police i'm not playing Russian roulette with my life just to give everyone the benefit of the doubt because it won't be long before i end up dead. If i have a gun and i think someone is about to draw a gun on me, i'm going for my gun not the taser.
If a person is unarmed etc. sure taser them (Ferguson case), but if i think they're about to shoot me i'm shooting back.
Original post by JG1233
Because i'm sure firing a taser and gun are identical, explain to me more about your knowledge of firing both guns and tasers, congratulations you get another one of these!
Also i know tasers are used within the US, i lived there for a year during my university placement. Your going for a record, hes your third!
Its tragic the kid has died but it was a result of his own actions. If i was walking through a park and a kid randomly went into his pocket and pulled out a gun on me (if its looks like one i'll presume it is, i'm not going to wait until he shoots to find out its fake) i would probably be rolling across the floor. The kid was committing a serious offence and if this was in a state where people can legally carry guns it could have easily ended up being a civilian who shot the kid and not the police.
If i was in the police i'm not playing Russian roulette with my life just to give everyone the benefit of the doubt because it won't be long before i end up dead. If i have a gun and i think someone is about to draw a gun on me, i'm going for my gun not the taser.
If a person is unarmed etc. sure taser them (Ferguson case), but if i think they're about to shoot me i'm shooting back.
Also i know tasers are used within the US, i lived there for a year during my university placement. Your going for a record, hes your third!
Its tragic the kid has died but it was a result of his own actions. If i was walking through a park and a kid randomly went into his pocket and pulled out a gun on me (if its looks like one i'll presume it is, i'm not going to wait until he shoots to find out its fake) i would probably be rolling across the floor. The kid was committing a serious offence and if this was in a state where people can legally carry guns it could have easily ended up being a civilian who shot the kid and not the police.
If i was in the police i'm not playing Russian roulette with my life just to give everyone the benefit of the doubt because it won't be long before i end up dead. If i have a gun and i think someone is about to draw a gun on me, i'm going for my gun not the taser.
If a person is unarmed etc. sure taser them (Ferguson case), but if i think they're about to shoot me i'm shooting back.
Firing a gun and a tazer are very similar at short ranges, no need to facepalm there. Facepalm minus 1.
If you lived in the US why are you criticizing the taser when it is used effectively? Facepalm minus 2.
The point is this never would have happened if guns weren't legal. I'm sure since you live in the UK you agree with a gun ban no?
Original post by JG1233
Because i'm sure firing a taser and gun are identical, explain to me more about your knowledge of firing both guns and tasers, congratulations you get another one of these!
Also i know tasers are used within the US, i lived there for a year during my university placement. Your going for a record, hes your third!
Its tragic the kid has died but it was a result of his own actions. If i was walking through a park and a kid randomly went into his pocket and pulled out a gun on me (if its looks like one i'll presume it is, i'm not going to wait until he shoots to find out its fake) i would probably be rolling across the floor. The kid was committing a serious offence and if this was in a state where people can legally carry guns it could have easily ended up being a civilian who shot the kid and not the police.
If i was in the police i'm not playing Russian roulette with my life just to give everyone the benefit of the doubt because it won't be long before i end up dead. If i have a gun and i think someone is about to draw a gun on me, i'm going for my gun not the taser.
If a person is unarmed etc. sure taser them (Ferguson case), but if i think they're about to shoot me i'm shooting back.
Also i know tasers are used within the US, i lived there for a year during my university placement. Your going for a record, hes your third!
Its tragic the kid has died but it was a result of his own actions. If i was walking through a park and a kid randomly went into his pocket and pulled out a gun on me (if its looks like one i'll presume it is, i'm not going to wait until he shoots to find out its fake) i would probably be rolling across the floor. The kid was committing a serious offence and if this was in a state where people can legally carry guns it could have easily ended up being a civilian who shot the kid and not the police.
If i was in the police i'm not playing Russian roulette with my life just to give everyone the benefit of the doubt because it won't be long before i end up dead. If i have a gun and i think someone is about to draw a gun on me, i'm going for my gun not the taser.
If a person is unarmed etc. sure taser them (Ferguson case), but if i think they're about to shoot me i'm shooting back.
Where are you getting your information from? The BBC article on this case says that the boy did not make any verbal threats or point the replica gun at the police officers. His only failing was not raising his hands when told to.
The London Riots started because of something just like this. Police officers can't assume anything - especially if it's their justification for firing fatal shots.
What does gun control have to do with it? armed cops shot him not some gun nut. With gun control the criminals would still have guns while the average gun owning American would be unable to defend themselves and property. The fact is America has so many guns it would take a very long time to get them off the streets if serious gun control was implements. You have to stop being so bloody naive and look at who is pushing gun control they aren't nice people wanting to take away your guns. The public are disarmed, unable defend against a tyrannical government which describes America to a T.
The media only make's a big deal over this because the boy shot was Black.Cops beat, kill, white people all the time and usually get away with it.I would say this happens more to African-Americans because let's face it they are overrepresented when it comes to gun crime on the streets and crime in general.What I mean is if Blacks didn't commit so many crimes, there wouldn't be so many trigger happy honkey ass cracker police
Original post by pjm600
Could all too easily happen here too.
[video="youtube;ehzq9OdE2w0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehzq9OdE2w0[/video]
[video="youtube;ehzq9OdE2w0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehzq9OdE2w0[/video]
Point is he didn't get shot. The officers waited to see what he did before firing. If the officers in America gave this kind of thought then i guarantee that kid would have not died.
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
Firing a gun and a tazer are very similar at short ranges, no need to facepalm there. Facepalm minus 1.
If you lived in the US why are you criticizing the taser when it is used effectively? Facepalm minus 2.
The point is this never would have happened if guns weren't legal. I'm sure since you live in the UK you agree with a gun ban no?
If you lived in the US why are you criticizing the taser when it is used effectively? Facepalm minus 2.
The point is this never would have happened if guns weren't legal. I'm sure since you live in the UK you agree with a gun ban no?
Yes i agree with a gun ban, i would hate to see guns legalized within the UK or have general police officers carry them. But this would have likely gone very similar in the UK, if there is a reason to believe a person is armed with a gun the armed response unit is called. If a 12 year old in the UK after being told to put his hands up instead went to grab what appears to be a gun, it would have likely been the exact same scenario.
I'm not criticizing the tazer, it can be used effectively. Not usually when the other person has a gun though. I see no real excuse for shooting instead of tazering an un-armed attacker, but when there is reason to believe they have a gun then i would suddenly say your pretty out-gunned if your only armed with a tazer.
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
Point is he didn't get shot. The officers waited to see what he did before firing. If the officers in America gave this kind of thought then i guarantee that kid would have not died.
Very easy to say when you're not facing someone that could end your life.
Original post by Reluire
Where are you getting your information from? The BBC article on this case says that the boy did not make any verbal threats or point the replica gun at the police officers. His only failing was not raising his hands when told to.
The London Riots started because of something just like this. Police officers can't assume anything - especially if it's their justification for firing fatal shots.
The London Riots started because of something just like this. Police officers can't assume anything - especially if it's their justification for firing fatal shots.
In an article i read it said instead of raising his hands he moved them towards his waist. The police have also confirmed they have a full clear video of the incident, and they also said he moved towards his waist.
If you buy a BB gun, then do everything you can to make it look realistic so people presume it is, you cant suddenly be that surprised a police officer presumed it was. In the London riots the police shot Mark Duggan without ever seeing a gun and without anybody reporting he had one (just their own intel he had), there was people who had reported to this police on this occasion he had what looked like a gun and he was pointing it at random people (he'd probably kill someone with a heart attack doing that for a day).
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
Firing a gun and a tazer are very similar at short ranges, no need to facepalm there. Facepalm minus 1.
If you lived in the US why are you criticizing the taser when it is used effectively? Facepalm minus 2.
The point is this never would have happened if guns weren't legal. I'm sure since you live in the UK you agree with a gun ban no?
If you lived in the US why are you criticizing the taser when it is used effectively? Facepalm minus 2.
The point is this never would have happened if guns weren't legal. I'm sure since you live in the UK you agree with a gun ban no?
A gun is much more effective at any range than a tazer. Tazers are unreliable, inefficient, require a "clean" shot at close range and sometimes even multiple uses (therefore multiple officers because they're 1-use only before being re-prepped/changed).
The bold in particular is what I want to get at. Cops still make mistakes if firearms are illegal. Cops will still kill civilians if firearms are illegal. Criminals can still obtain firearms regardless of a firearm ban (because criminals, as it happens, have no respect of the law)- that kid could have been in the UK or similar and still been shot by armed police because what he had still could have been interpreted as a real firearm.
I was born and raised in the UK and do not agree with the hideous firearm ban(s) either here or in the US.
Original post by JG1233
In an article i read it said instead of raising his hands he moved them towards his waist. The police have also confirmed they have a full clear video of the incident, and they also said he moved towards his waist.
If you buy a BB gun, then do everything you can to make it look realistic so people presume it is, you cant suddenly be that surprised a police officer presumed it was.
If you buy a BB gun, then do everything you can to make it look realistic so people presume it is, you cant suddenly be that surprised a police officer presumed it was.
Could you link me to this article? I'm not surprised the police claim to have this video; they're covering their own backs. Until an independent judge can confirm that he moved his hand towards his waist as if to reach for the gun, this video amounts to nothing.
You can't be surprised that they presumed it was a gun, but you can be surprised that they shot to kill when, according to my information, he made no movement that suggested he was reaching for the gun. Why would he reach for the gun anyway if it was a replica?
Original post by JG1233
In an article i read it said instead of raising his hands he moved them towards his waist. The police have also confirmed they have a full clear video of the incident, and they also said he moved towards his waist.
If you buy a BB gun, then do everything you can to make it look realistic so people presume it is, you cant suddenly be that surprised a police officer presumed it was. In the London riots the police shot Mark Duggan without ever seeing a gun and without anybody reporting he had one (just their own intel he had), there was people who had reported to this police on this occasion he had what looked like a gun and he was pointing it at random people (he'd probably kill someone with a heart attack doing that for a day).
If you buy a BB gun, then do everything you can to make it look realistic so people presume it is, you cant suddenly be that surprised a police officer presumed it was. In the London riots the police shot Mark Duggan without ever seeing a gun and without anybody reporting he had one (just their own intel he had), there was people who had reported to this police on this occasion he had what looked like a gun and he was pointing it at random people (he'd probably kill someone with a heart attack doing that for a day).
Reckon we'll be allowed to see some of this video? I'm guessing not as it's police business at the moment.
Original post by Reluire
Could you link me to this article? I'm not surprised the police claim to have this video; they're covering their own backs. Until an independent judge can confirm that he moved his hand towards his waist as if to reach for the gun, this video amounts to nothing.
You can't be surprised that they presumed it was a gun, but you can be surprised that they shot to kill when, according to my information, he made no movement that suggested he was reaching for the gun. Why would he reach for the gun anyway if it was a replica?
You can't be surprised that they presumed it was a gun, but you can be surprised that they shot to kill when, according to my information, he made no movement that suggested he was reaching for the gun. Why would he reach for the gun anyway if it was a replica?
http://news.yahoo.com/probe-begins-fatal-shooting-boy-officer-065908018.html
I'd be skeptical too, but that doesn't mean i'll just presume the officer was in the wrong until it is confirmed.
He's a kid, i have no idea why he would have reached for the gun. But like said pulling a realistic looking gun on people in a public place could have easily ended up getting him killed anyway, especially in a state where its legal to carry guns. Until all the information is released (and if there is a video it should be pretty clear), but if i thought someone was about to shoot me i doubt i would give them the opportunity.
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
Reckon we'll be allowed to see some of this video? I'm guessing not as it's police business at the moment.
Well i doubt they will release a video of a 12 year old being shot to death to the public. It would probably be pretty distressing to the family and all.
They might show it in court to a jury or something though when this is being reviewed.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Jemner01
A gun is much more effective at any range than a tazer. Tazers are unreliable, inefficient, require a "clean" shot at close range and sometimes even multiple uses (therefore multiple officers because they're 1-use only before being re-prepped/changed).
The bold in particular is what I want to get at. Cops still make mistakes if firearms are illegal. Cops will still kill civilians if firearms are illegal. Criminals can still obtain firearms regardless of a firearm ban (because criminals, as it happens, have no respect of the law)- that kid could have been in the UK or similar and still been shot by armed police because what he had still could have been interpreted as a real firearm.
I was born and raised in the UK and do not agree with the hideous firearm ban(s) either here or in the US.
The bold in particular is what I want to get at. Cops still make mistakes if firearms are illegal. Cops will still kill civilians if firearms are illegal. Criminals can still obtain firearms regardless of a firearm ban (because criminals, as it happens, have no respect of the law)- that kid could have been in the UK or similar and still been shot by armed police because what he had still could have been interpreted as a real firearm.
I was born and raised in the UK and do not agree with the hideous firearm ban(s) either here or in the US.
Agree with that however a tazer 99% of the time wont kill.
The majority of police officers as you know in the UK don't carry firearms. Only swat and special forces are allowed. Please provide me with statistics where a policeman has accidentally killed someone who poses no threat in the UK.
Well it's a good job you're not prime minister because the majority would disagree with you.
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
Agree with that however a tazer 99% of the time wont kill.
The majority of police officers as you know in the UK don't carry firearms. Only swat and special forces are allowed. Please provide me with statistics where a policeman has accidentally killed someone who poses no threat in the UK.
Well it's a good job you're not prime minister because the majority would disagree with you.
The majority of police officers as you know in the UK don't carry firearms. Only swat and special forces are allowed. Please provide me with statistics where a policeman has accidentally killed someone who poses no threat in the UK.
Well it's a good job you're not prime minister because the majority would disagree with you.
There's no point using tazers when more effective and therefore safer (for anyone under threat by a criminal) options exist like actual firearms.
There are no stats because convineintly the government doesn't publish stats on how many innocent people it kills. Besides, considering you ignored my stats a couple pages back showing how the majority of legal firearms in America (99.97%) are not used in crime, you'd just swat it away anyway and reply with more conjecture.
Original post by Schrödingers Cat
This event occurred yesterday in Cleveland US (where else):
Article: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/23/cleveland-police-shoot-dead-12-year-old-boy-carrying-fake-gun
One of the many things I hate about America is their gun policy. There is no need for guns to be legal, proven by the vast amount of countries who intelligently ban the sale or use of fire arms.
30 people a day died of gun crime in the US in 2013, a ridiculous number of deaths that could have been easily prevented with the change of one law.
How many more kids need to be killed on the street or in schools for the people of America to wake up and realize that guns and violence are not the answer.
Wake up people of America!!!
Article: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/23/cleveland-police-shoot-dead-12-year-old-boy-carrying-fake-gun
One of the many things I hate about America is their gun policy. There is no need for guns to be legal, proven by the vast amount of countries who intelligently ban the sale or use of fire arms.
30 people a day died of gun crime in the US in 2013, a ridiculous number of deaths that could have been easily prevented with the change of one law.
How many more kids need to be killed on the street or in schools for the people of America to wake up and realize that guns and violence are not the answer.
Wake up people of America!!!
He had a replica gun - British police would shoot a person in that position
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