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3 B's at A Level - still got a chance for a TC?

I know this has been asked in various ways, and I have read the other topics, but I guess I just need some sort of reassurance.

I’m currently studying Law LLB at Leicester, averaging about 66% in my first year so far.
I have 3 B’s at A-level in English, Maths and Law. They were all so close to A’s – 6 marks and under though, which I suppose annoys me, as I can never write that on application forms. But when there’s a 60 mark difference between an A and a B, it’s frustrating. Especially as I was only one mark off in my Maths.

What are my prospects of getting into a magic-circle firm with these kinds of grades? Are they likely to pass me off instantly because I don’t have any A’s?

I realise it is also about extra-curriculum activities and work experience, but will they look at the grades before anything else?
I am trying to make up for my grades with the extras:

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I was vice-president at my college student’s union.

•

I’m doing the BUNAC summer camp USA programme this summer.

•

I just completed a Managers scheme (which Allen & Overy were part of)

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I’m applying for work experience/shadowing in small high street firms for this September.

•

I’m trying to be part of Herbert Smith’s campus managers scheme (half way through application, but again I’m put off by the fact they probably think my A-levels are too low)

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I’m currently trying to set up a Bright Futures society for my university.

•

Work part time – being promoted to supervisor.

•

Part of various societies – public speakers, law, modern dance.

I guess what I’m saying is, is it actually enough though? Or will I instantly be disregarded because of my grades?

Honest answers would be much appreciated.

Reply 1

Elusive Prime

12

I'm sure if you demonstrate your enthusiasm etc. for the subject you would have a good shot

Reply 2

Stealth-Mode

13

If you do really well at UG level that should negate your missed three A's. Its unfortunate that you were very close to the A boundary, I know exactly how frustrating that can be. I'm not sure whether or not firms will take into account UMS marks.

I would say that getting into an MC firm is unrealistic for you at the moment, but not impossible. However, there are thousands of highly successful firms out there, not just the MC ones followed by the bottom of the barrel.

Your EC activities are very good but generic. You will need more legal work experience specific to your chosen career imo. However, you have plenty of time if you start now.

Reply 3

lottie12

OP

2

Thanks everyone.

Well, on the application forms they don't give you the chance to write anything extra about your grade. You can only write one letter (i.e. your grade) in the textbox. Hence why I can't that I was so close :frown:

Stealth-Mode

I would say that getting into an MC firm is unrealistic for you at the moment, but not impossible. However, there are thousands of highly successful firms out there, not just the MC ones followed by the bottom of the barrel.

Your EC activities are very good but generic. You will need more legal work experience specific to your chosen career imo. However, you have plenty of time if you start now.

I realise I need more work experience, hence why I’m trying to get experience in some small local firms this summer in my first year. Then hopefully a vacation scheme in my second year. Is there anything else you would recommend?

I thought my extra-curriculum activities wouldn't need to be improved. I just got an e-mail a few minutes ago saying I can go ahead with the Bright Futures society, meaning I will be working with the Bright Futures company. Therefore, I will be able to gain a wide range of contacts and valuable skills.
Is more needed though do you think?

I'm willing to do as much as possible :smile:

Suggestions are always welcome.

Thank you to everyone who has replied so far! Much appreciated.

Reply 4

Stealth-Mode

13

lottie12

Thanks everyone.

Well, on the application forms they don't give you the chance to write anything extra about your grade. You can only write one letter (i.e. your grade) in the textbox. Hence why I can't that I was so close :frown:

I realise I need more work experience, hence why I’m trying to get experience in some small local firms this summer in my first year. Then hopefully a vacation scheme in my second year. Is there anything else you would recommend?

I thought my extra-curriculum activities wouldn't need to be improved. I just got an e-mail a few minutes ago saying I can go ahead with the Bright Futures society, meaning I will be working with the Bright Futures company. Therefore, I will be able to gain a wide range of contacts and valuable skills.
Is more needed though do you think?

I'm willing to do as much as possible :smile:

Suggestions are always welcome.

Thank you to everyone who has replied so far! Much appreciated.

You have plenty of work experience, but if i were to look at the list by itself, I would not be able to gage that you intend to work in the legal profession. It is great that you have fitted so much in, but it is not all about quantity.You have a great base to show leadership and initiative, however I would just recommend you be more selective and take on specific work experience from here on in to show your interest in the legal profession in itself.

Reply 5

lottie12

OP

2

Stealth-Mode

You have plenty of work experience, but if i were to look at the list by itself, I would not be able to gage that you intend to work in the legal profession. It is great that you have fitted so much in, but it is not all about quantity.You have a great base to show leadership and initiative, however I would just recommend more specific experience from here on in to show your interest in the legal profession in itself.

So just law firms from now on? Do you think what type of law firm matters? Or say for example, I got somewhere that mainly concentrates on family law when I’d preferably like to do commercial?
Is it the experience in general that matters?

Edit: I did actually get onto the Allen & Overy open day in June, so i must be doing something right, though that was perhaps just luck.
I desperately need some legal experience now! :frown:

Reply 6

NW8_SW1_EC3

I would say just general law experiance is good enough, although if you can get commercial experiance then great. Although its alot harder to get as there there are not as many commerical firms offering oppotunities as others.

Reply 7

Stealth-Mode

13

lottie12

So just law firms from now on? Do you think what type of law firm matters? Or say for example, I got somewhere that mainly concentrates on family law when I’d preferably like to do commercial?
Is it the experience in general that matters?

Edit: I did actually get onto the Allen & Overy open day in June, so i must be doing something right, though that was perhaps just luck.
I desperately need some legal experience now! :frown:

Not just law firms- there are many different ways to show your interest in the law. Be creative.

You could do some work experience in areas you are unsure about, i.e. Family, and then use that as a justification as to why you are sure about your chosen field, i.e. Commercial.

Reply 8

jacketpotato

20

You'll have no problem getting into a law firm doing the type of work you want to do as long as you get a 2:1, or even better, a first.

You probably won't make a top commercial or magic circle firm (certainly not if you don't get a first- competition is such that the top commercial firms all require AAB, a 2:1 from a top uni and great extra-curriculars as a minimum kind of standard), and it wouldn't be advisable to become a barrister, but I think any other firm should be fair game for you.

As for vac schemes, it matters very much that you have done some sort of vacation experience in the area you want to go into. I suggest if you want to do commercial law, apply to 6-8 mid-tier commercial firms for vac schemes in your 2nd year. First year it doesn't matter so much, I think working in a local firm would boost your ap, but you do need some experience from the right sector in your 2nd year, or your app will just look bad.

But most importantly, do the type of law that interests you. As long as you get a 2:1 you can do criminal law, family, commercial, whatever you want, you just need to recognise you'll need some dedication and will be doing a lot of hours, so it needs to be a sector you want to work in.

Without trying to flame, I think the people who said generic experience is fine are wrong. Competition is such, for commercial firms at least, that everyone applying will have done work exp. in the relevant sector. I don't think having done some work exp. e.g. in family is enough justification for wanting to do e.g. commercial, you will need some very good reasons for not having done work exp in your sector, especially as commercial is COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY different from criminal or family. Its all well and good in your first year, and shows you are a entrepreneurial individual, but its not enough to show the dedication needed to get a decent training contract, in my opinion.

I sent off my apps for vac schemes this year to commercial firms (2nd yr lawyer), so if you have questions about the commercial side of things feel free to shoot me a PM

Reply 9

ordinaryisboring

No it is not impossible I did not get a single A at ALevel but I got TC offers from MC firms. However, the only reason that I got through was because of very good uni grades, impressive ECs and work experience. You really need to go the extra mile to make yourself stand out on your application forms because of your grades and it's great that you're getting involved already. I completely agree with the other posters that you need to get as much legal work experience as possible (in whatever areas you can) as it shows your dedication to the law and also that you want to choose the right type of practice in the future. Good luck and keep up the ECs and grades throughout your time at uni and you will be fine.

Reply 10

lawstudent17

Some of the major city law firms and some of the MC firms do specify that certain UCAS tariff is reached and if you aren't able to tick that box its unrealistic to progress with the application.

I still would though, if I was in your position and was sufficiently interested in the firm e.g. Allen & Overy - which does specify a minimum A-Level requirement of AAB.

I have attended presentations where current trainees of Allen & Overy have stated that they achieved, to use one example: ABB results as well as a 2.i from a not-so reputable university (at least for Law). Other MC firms such as Freshfields (which, as far as I know, doesn't have a minimum A-Level requirement threshold) claim that they are trying to face up to the problems and are being open-minded about applicants who develop their academic strenghts later (i.e. you) or haven't completed the equivalent of A-Levels (or have done but achieved poor grades).

On the other hand, I don't doubt that there are some conservative firms with the same requirements, that would bin the same application without much thought.

BBB A-levels are a good set of results. I wouldn't try to defend them in your application though and certainly not in the mitigating circumstances of the form, even if, as you say, you were only a few marks away from an A grade. IMO, you'll come across as being overly defensive where its uncalled for. You want the firm to focus on your recent degree results and its rash too assume that they wouldn't.

You've definitely got a great chance of securing a training contract and you have some very impressive extra-curriculars that will mean a lot.

Good Luck.

Reply 11

Crimson Black

13

As others have pointed out, do extra legal work. Vac schemes aren't the only thing. I'm currently in the process of applying to volunteer as an admin at Blackfriar's Crown Court, for example. Not glamorous, but it gets me working in a court.

Reply 12

flugestuge

3

lottie12

So just law firms from now on? Do you think what type of law firm matters? Or say for example, I got somewhere that mainly concentrates on family law when I’d preferably like to do commercial?

Commercial law would probably be a little hard to get into, with your university and your marks. You do realise that commercial is the hardest to get into, dont you ?

Reply 13

lottie12

OP

2

Thanks everyone for your help.

I realise i will have to work my hardest in order to actually achieve what i want. But I am trying on the extra curriculum activities side, now I just need to try and get as much legal experience as possible.

Crimson Black

As others have pointed out, do extra legal work. Vac schemes aren't the only thing. I'm currently in the process of applying to volunteer as an admin at Blackfriar's Crown Court, for example. Not glamorous, but it gets me working in a court.

I did think about trying to do something along those lines. Someone once mentioned to me that the CPS is often quite willing for you to work-shadow someone, so I’ll try that.

Then I’ll try and get some experience in some local firms for when I come back for America.

ordinaryisboring

No it is not impossible I did not get a single A at ALevel but I got TC offers from MC firms. However, the only reason that I got through was because of very good uni grades, impressive ECs and work experience. You really need to go the extra mile to make yourself stand out on your application forms because of your grades and it's great that you're getting involved already. I completely agree with the other posters that you need to get as much legal work experience as possible (in whatever areas you can) as it shows your dedication to the law and also that you want to choose the right type of practice in the future. Good luck and keep up the ECs and grades throughout your time at uni and you will be fine.

Thanks, that’s really boosted my confidence. And congratulations! That’s very impressive. I just hope I can achieve the same as you.

jacketpotato

Without trying to flame, I think the people who said generic experience is fine are wrong. Competition is such, for commercial firms at least, that everyone applying will have done work exp. in the relevant sector. I don't think having done some work exp. e.g. in family is enough justification for wanting to do e.g. commercial, you will need some very good reasons for not having done work exp in your sector, especially as commercial is COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY different from criminal or family. Its all well and good in your first year, and shows you are a entrepreneurial individual, but its not enough to show the dedication needed to get a decent training contract, in my opinion.

Thanks for the reply :smile:

I realise that in the second year I have to do work experience in the relevant sector, hence why I want to apply for vacation schemes in commercial companies. But I was just meaning if it mattered what work experience you got in the first year. It is often hard to get local firms (who don’t provide vacation schemes/work experience generally) to even allow you to work-shadow them or do the rubbish jobs! I just thought any sort of law firm experience, at this stage, would be good.

flugestuge

Commercial law would probably be a little hard to get into, with your university and your marks. You do realise that commercial is the hardest to get into, dont you ?

Thanks for the reply, though I don’t know if you were being a little patronising at the end. I do realise it is very hard to get into, but I am trying everything possible to achieve that. I wouldn’t say Leicester is that bad of a university; it isn’t top of the range no, but it’s in the top 20. I just felt you weren’t particularly giving me advice, but rather, implying that I have no chance as well, I’m stupid. I apologise if I got that wrong, but that’s just the impression I got. Advice on how I could do well would have been more appreciated.

Reply 14

Damn, I was going for thoughtful.

I'm not sure - as you know, most magic circle firms do specify that you have a minimum of AAB/ ABB. I think it's definitely worth applying for vac schemes and training contracts though. You don't know until you try.

My advice would be to get as much legal work experience as you can, and to ensure that you're on for a first. As others have said, you do have an impressive list of extra curriculars but none of them really seem to relate to law, so as much legal work experience as possible would be good. I'd add that it might be worth taking on a position of responsibility in, for example, the modern dance society. At all my training contract interviews they seemed to be looking for well-rounded people with personality and interests to complement their academics.

Finally, try and look into some other firms which also have a commercial practice but which are perhaps a bit less competitive and apply to them too. You mustn't see the magic circle as the be all - you've achieved a great deal already and there's no point setting yourself up for failure.

GOOD LUCK!

Reply 15

TommehR

13

Are there any mitigating circumstances with the BBB? If there are, put them down on the form. I think that your problems might come in actually get Grad Recruitment to read your form. I believe that a lot of firms use filtering systems which either stop people with lower grades from applying, or automatically reject you.

That would be a shame though as you have lots of great extracurriculars and seem to be doing well in your degree. I think that the obvious thing to do would be to e-mail or phone up some of the firms that you are interested in and ask for their opinions.

I've talked quite a lot to Grad Recruitment at a US firm this week and they emphasise that they're really looking for a complete package. They're unlikely to hire someone who has absolutely perfect grades if their CV is completely empty. Likewise, if somebody comes along with slightly below average grades but an amazing CV nonetheless, they'll probably give you a chance.

I think your plan of action should be to ring/email some firms over the next couple of weeks and try and gauge their reactions. The A-level requirements are often to try and put every man and his dog off applying and it acts as a filter in that way. Apply for Vacation Schemes in your second year and hopefully you'll get a couple. It's not the end of the world if you don't get anything. Just try and do as much work experience as you can, work hard, and you'll be able to get that TC if you're good enough.

Heyy

madhead123

Hey there, i'm also at Leicester Uni doing law, averaging similar marks.

I got AAAB at A-level and did get into Bristol uni, however, for personal reasons i decided to go to Leicester (bad choice probally, i know!).

If i average a decent 2:1 with good EC's along with my a-levels, do you think i have a decent shot of some mid-top tier firms? Thanks in advance.

Yes.

Reply 18

Lush Law

15

BBB is fine. It won't stop you getting a TC. As other people have said some firms have an initial filter before they let you begin their online app eg "Do you have minimum AAB at A-level" and "do you have or are you predicted at least a 2.1 in your degree" etc. A lot of firms, however, stipulate 300 UCAS points from 3 A-levels, which is exactly BBB. Don't worry about it.

Aim to get very good first year marks - good 2.1. This will help you enormously in terms of getting vac schemes. Work particularly hard at Contract Law- if you only get a 2.2 in Contract you will immediately set yourself back (not in the long run, but in terms of vac scheme chances).

Reply 19

Lewisy-boy

11

I really don't think that legal work experience is as important as people make it out to be when it comes to applying for vacation schemes. Doing at least one VS, however, is extremely helpful (although far from compulsory) in the area of law within which you want to practice so that even if you don't get a TC with the firm you can see what the general tenor of work will be like. Having a load of high street experience if you want to work in the MC is not as good (in my opinion) as continuing in your part time job and getting promoted to higher levels of responsibility (as you appear to have done in becoming a supervisor). That's far more important than sitting around watching people draft wills, in my opinion.

You can show you want to do law in other ways, and tbh commercial law is every bit as much about business as it is about law and you can certainly show your interest in business by being a supervisor or whatever. Just get a VS, safe.

3 B's at A Level - still got a chance for a TC?

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