For realistic prospects at the civil Bar, should I do a second BA degree/LLB?

I am currently pursuing a different career path (teaching), for reasons that I'll elaborate below.

I never considered the Bar during my undergraduate degree (at Cambridge, non-law), or my Masters Russel Group). I graduated from Cambridge almost ten years ago now. I don't want to do the GDL, as it won't matter much even if I do get a Distinction.

My issue is that my undergraduate degree (the most important one for the Bar) was only a mid 2:1 (66). No matter what subsequent professional experiences or qualifications you have, not having a First at undergraduate level is pretty much insurmountable for London civil/commercial/chancery Chambers.

Given grade inflation (around a third, maybe more, of Oxbridge humanities/arts students graduate with Firsts) in the past 20 years, having a 2:1 (and not even a nearly-missed-first) is really a huge hurdle to overcome for civil/commercial sets (in London at least, where I'd want to practice).

I didn't focus during much of my undergraduate degree due to personal, medical issues (which I didn't formally raise with my college). At the time, I just went along, tried to cope as best as I could, and saw my GP, as well as the college nurse and counselling/therapy team.

I know I can achieve First class grades when I actually do the work (I did so in my first year - which doesn't count towards degree class at Cam - and at Postgraduate).

In order to be a realistic contender for the civil Bar, should I save up some money when I start earning as a newly qualified teacher (which isn't a great salary, I know....), and then do a senior status LLB in a Russell Group university, and ensure I get a solid First, since I won't be able to get into the Cambridge Law degree or Oxford Jurisprudence course with a 2:1 non-law undergraduate (at least, I think it's extremely unlikely).

Thoughts? Thank you all in advance.

I am currently pursuing a different career path (teaching), for reasons that I'll elaborate below.

I never considered the Bar during my undergraduate degree (at Cambridge, non-law), or my Masters Russel Group). I graduated from Cambridge almost ten years ago now. I don't want to do the GDL, as it won't matter much even if I do get a Distinction.

My issue is that my undergraduate degree (the most important one for the Bar) was only a mid 2:1 (66). No matter what subsequent professional experiences or qualifications you have, not having a First at undergraduate level is pretty much insurmountable for London civil/commercial/chancery Chambers.

Given grade inflation (around a third, maybe more, of Oxbridge humanities/arts students graduate with Firsts) in the past 20 years, having a 2:1 (and not even a nearly-missed-first) is really a huge hurdle to overcome for civil/commercial sets (in London at least, where I'd want to practice).

I didn't focus during much of my undergraduate degree due to personal, medical issues (which I didn't formally raise with my college). At the time, I just went along, tried to cope as best as I could, and saw my GP, as well as the college nurse and counselling/therapy team.

I know I can achieve First class grades when I actually do the work (I did so in my first year - which doesn't count towards degree class at Cam - and at Postgraduate).

In order to be a realistic contender for the civil Bar, should I save up some money when I start earning as a newly qualified teacher (which isn't a great salary, I know....), and then do a senior status LLB in a Russell Group university, and ensure I get a solid First, since I won't be able to get into the Cambridge Law degree or Oxford Jurisprudence course with a 2:1 non-law undergraduate (at least, I think it's extremely unlikely).

Thoughts? Thank you all in advance.

I am currently pursuing a different career path (teaching), for reasons that I'll elaborate below.

I never considered the Bar during my undergraduate degree (at Cambridge, non-law), or my Masters Russel Group). I graduated from Cambridge almost ten years ago now. I don't want to do the GDL, as it won't matter much even if I do get a Distinction.

My issue is that my undergraduate degree (the most important one for the Bar) was only a mid 2:1 (66). No matter what subsequent professional experiences or qualifications you have, not having a First at undergraduate level is pretty much insurmountable for London civil/commercial/chancery Chambers.

Given grade inflation (around a third, maybe more, of Oxbridge humanities/arts students graduate with Firsts) in the past 20 years, having a 2:1 (and not even a nearly-missed-first) is really a huge hurdle to overcome for civil/commercial sets (in London at least, where I'd want to practice).

I didn't focus during much of my undergraduate degree due to personal, medical issues (which I didn't formally raise with my college). At the time, I just went along, tried to cope as best as I could, and saw my GP, as well as the college nurse and counselling/therapy team.

I know I can achieve First class grades when I actually do the work (I did so in my first year - which doesn't count towards degree class at Cam - and at Postgraduate).

In order to be a realistic contender for the civil Bar, should I save up some money when I start earning as a newly qualified teacher (which isn't a great salary, I know....), and then do a senior status LLB in a Russell Group university, and ensure I get a solid First, since I won't be able to get into the Cambridge Law degree or Oxford Jurisprudence course with a 2:1 non-law undergraduate (at least, I think it's extremely unlikely).

Thoughts? Thank you all in advance.

You can't go back and change the past. Just do the GDL and build off the back of who you are now. You don't need to go back and do an undergrad degree to try and erase 10 years back, it doesn't work like that.

Are you a barrister/do you have experience in the legal sector?

I wouldn't be erasing the past ten years, as that's impossible, but I would just be attaining the grade that's necessary for most of the commercial Chambers in London. Without that undergraduate first, I'm not a serious contender.

I'll try and summon the expert though @Crazy Jamie

I am summoned!

This thread passed me by when it first made for some reason. Should really have replied sooner.

There's an obvious place to start here.You've already correctly identified that the overwhelming majority of those individuals who secure pupillage at those top tier London commercial sets get a First. However, to my mind the important next question is whether pupillage at one of these sets would be a realistic goal for you if you did another undergraduate degree and got a First? I don't think you've properly considered that question, and the answer may be (and possibly even probably is) 'no', for two reasons.

First, look at the profile of those candidates. Do the overwhelming majority get a First? Yes. Is that why they get pupillage? Very obviously not. Even from an academic perspective it isn't. Take Sophie Bird as an example. She is a recent tenant at Brick Court and her profile is here. She got a BA from Oxford in 2015, which we can assume was not a First because it's not stated as being a First. So what did she do next? She did an LLB, just like you want to. She got a First from Cambridge. Is that all? No, it is not. She went on to complete an LLM. At Harvard. So even academically that is a lot more than just doing a second degree and getting a First. Other candidates tell similar stories. Plenty of them have got a First and then done the Cambridge LLM or the Oxford BCL. So here's the problem. These candidates don't just get Firsts. They are demonstrably academically exceptional. Very, very few candidates are at that level even before we look at the rest of their application. You're not at that level. Can you get to it? I'd tentatively suggest probably not.

But even if you could, their profiles don't end there. There's loads of relevant, impressive work experience, and you don't get pupillage at those sets without that, either. You also don't get it without being able to demonstrate those skills in writing in the application and during interview. What experience do you have and what transferable skills have you developed? That's not a rhetorical question. I don't know the answer. But it is a question you need to give serious consideration to, because unless your profile looks like those candidates (and, realistically, it probably doesn't) then, again, pupillage at these sets is probably not a realistic goal for you.

But that's not a knock at all. Barristers at these sets are roughly the top 3% of the profession. The overwhelming majority of the profession is not them, so not only is there no shame at all in aiming lower, for the majority of candidates it's actively sensible to aim lower. You can have a very successful career without practising at one of those sets. I've had a career to date that most people would probably tell me has been successful, but not in my wildest dreams could I have practised at one of those sets. And that's fine. There are so many other sets, both in London and elsewhere in the country, where you can develop a strong civil/commercial/chancery practice, and so many more where you can develop a successful, rewarding practice in other areas of law.

So my advice is first, to critically assess whether one of these sets is a viable goal for you when it comes to pupillage if you do another LLB. I suspect it isn't, but I don't have all the information I need to have to make that judgement. If it isn't, my advice would be to do the GDL and the Bar course, and in the mean time work towards constructing a rounded application to make pupillage in general a realistic proposition for you. That means identifying the transferable skills and relevant experience that you have, identifying the gaps in your application (both in terms of experience such as mini pupillages, and in terms of transferable skills) and planning how you're going to fill them. As a more mature candidate (in both age and experience) you need to make your experience to date work for you, which can give an advantage to you if done correctly, but you also need to be realistic about where you need to pull yourself up. So do that, make a plan for it, and execute that plan while you tick the GDL and Bar course boxes. That's how you make yourself a realistic candidate for pupillage.

I am currently pursuing a different career path (teaching), for reasons that I'll elaborate below.

I never considered the Bar during my undergraduate degree (at Cambridge, non-law), or my Masters Russel Group). I graduated from Cambridge almost ten years ago now. I don't want to do the GDL, as it won't matter much even if I do get a Distinction.

My issue is that my undergraduate degree (the most important one for the Bar) was only a mid 2:1 (66). No matter what subsequent professional experiences or qualifications you have, not having a First at undergraduate level is pretty much insurmountable for London civil/commercial/chancery Chambers.

Given grade inflation (around a third, maybe more, of Oxbridge humanities/arts students graduate with Firsts) in the past 20 years, having a 2:1 (and not even a nearly-missed-first) is really a huge hurdle to overcome for civil/commercial sets (in London at least, where I'd want to practice).

I didn't focus during much of my undergraduate degree due to personal, medical issues (which I didn't formally raise with my college). At the time, I just went along, tried to cope as best as I could, and saw my GP, as well as the college nurse and counselling/therapy team.

I know I can achieve First class grades when I actually do the work (I did so in my first year - which doesn't count towards degree class at Cam - and at Postgraduate).

In order to be a realistic contender for the civil Bar, should I save up some money when I start earning as a newly qualified teacher (which isn't a great salary, I know....), and then do a senior status LLB in a Russell Group university, and ensure I get a solid First, since I won't be able to get into the Cambridge Law degree or Oxford Jurisprudence course with a 2:1 non-law undergraduate (at least, I think it's extremely unlikely).

Thoughts? Thank you all in advance.