Is doing a second undergraduate degree a terrible idea?
I graduated with a solid 2:1 from Oxford university six years ago, and have been filled with deep regret ever since.
While many consider that a success, for me it really wasn't; I just had not applied myself and knew I was capable of more. At the time, I wasn't that upset; I was wrapped up in my own personal problems, and just wanted to leave Oxford and have a fresh start.
I did the bare minimum work in my final year, riding on most of what I did in second year. I know I was capable of getting a first; I had a first class average in my second year.
In my final year, I had some personal problems which meant that I didn't prioritise academic work. At the time, I didn't feel guilty about it - but now I wish I'd addressed my personal issues at the time, so that I could focus on the work.
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
If I save up enough money from my current employment, and do a second BA at Cambridge or UCL/LSE/Kings, and actually put the work in this time, will my first degree result still be taken into consideration?
Some people say that a second BA is a huge waste of time and money, particularly since I won't be guaranteed a pupillage even if I do excel. Yet I feel as though my lack of a First is what is really preventing me from being considered by London Chambers, and that is to say decent London sets, not those three or four "superstar" sets (i.e. Brick Court, Blackstone), which are ridiculously competitive.
While many consider that a success, for me it really wasn't; I just had not applied myself and knew I was capable of more. At the time, I wasn't that upset; I was wrapped up in my own personal problems, and just wanted to leave Oxford and have a fresh start.
I did the bare minimum work in my final year, riding on most of what I did in second year. I know I was capable of getting a first; I had a first class average in my second year.
In my final year, I had some personal problems which meant that I didn't prioritise academic work. At the time, I didn't feel guilty about it - but now I wish I'd addressed my personal issues at the time, so that I could focus on the work.
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
If I save up enough money from my current employment, and do a second BA at Cambridge or UCL/LSE/Kings, and actually put the work in this time, will my first degree result still be taken into consideration?
Some people say that a second BA is a huge waste of time and money, particularly since I won't be guaranteed a pupillage even if I do excel. Yet I feel as though my lack of a First is what is really preventing me from being considered by London Chambers, and that is to say decent London sets, not those three or four "superstar" sets (i.e. Brick Court, Blackstone), which are ridiculously competitive.
Repeating your degree to get a higher result at a huge cost isn’t going to impress any employers.
If you want to demonstrate that you’re capable of academic excellence then take an LLM and get a distinction instead of repeating your undergraduate degree
If you want to demonstrate that you’re capable of academic excellence then take an LLM and get a distinction instead of repeating your undergraduate degree
Original post by Lea1995
I graduated with a solid 2:1 from Oxford university six years ago, and have been filled with deep regret ever since.
While many consider that a success, for me it really wasn't; I just had not applied myself and knew I was capable of more. At the time, I wasn't that upset; I was wrapped up in my own personal problems, and just wanted to leave Oxford and have a fresh start.
I did the bare minimum work in my final year, riding on most of what I did in second year. I know I was capable of getting a first; I had a first class average in my second year.
In my final year, I had some personal problems which meant that I didn't prioritise academic work. At the time, I didn't feel guilty about it - but now I wish I'd addressed my personal issues at the time, so that I could focus on the work.
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
If I save up enough money from my current employment, and do a second BA at Cambridge or UCL/LSE/Kings, and actually put the work in this time, will my first degree result still be taken into consideration?
Some people say that a second BA is a huge waste of time and money, particularly since I won't be guaranteed a pupillage even if I do excel. Yet I feel as though my lack of a First is what is really preventing me from being considered by London Chambers, and that is to say decent London sets, not those three or four "superstar" sets (i.e. Brick Court, Blackstone), which are ridiculously competitive.
While many consider that a success, for me it really wasn't; I just had not applied myself and knew I was capable of more. At the time, I wasn't that upset; I was wrapped up in my own personal problems, and just wanted to leave Oxford and have a fresh start.
I did the bare minimum work in my final year, riding on most of what I did in second year. I know I was capable of getting a first; I had a first class average in my second year.
In my final year, I had some personal problems which meant that I didn't prioritise academic work. At the time, I didn't feel guilty about it - but now I wish I'd addressed my personal issues at the time, so that I could focus on the work.
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
If I save up enough money from my current employment, and do a second BA at Cambridge or UCL/LSE/Kings, and actually put the work in this time, will my first degree result still be taken into consideration?
Some people say that a second BA is a huge waste of time and money, particularly since I won't be guaranteed a pupillage even if I do excel. Yet I feel as though my lack of a First is what is really preventing me from being considered by London Chambers, and that is to say decent London sets, not those three or four "superstar" sets (i.e. Brick Court, Blackstone), which are ridiculously competitive.
What is the end goal? Will having the First make you eligible for jobs that you currently are not? If not, I personally don't think it would be worth the time and expense. Have you considered doing a postgraduate course instead? This will move you further ahead in terms of qualifications, and also give you the opportunity to prove to yourself that you can do as well as you want in academics.
I'm sorry, but doing the exact same degree somewhere else just for the sake of getting a first is absolutely beyond ridiculous. If it was a different degree then maybe, but the same one?? Nah, that's a huge waste of time and money and it would also probably be incredibly boring having to repeat many of the same modules and concepts.
Original post by PQ
Repeating your degree to get a higher result at a huge cost isn’t going to impress any employers.
If you want to demonstrate that you’re capable of academic excellence then take an LLM and get a distinction instead of repeating your undergraduate degree
If you want to demonstrate that you’re capable of academic excellence then take an LLM and get a distinction instead of repeating your undergraduate degree
My undergraduate degree was not in law, so I can't just do an LLM. And a Distinction in the GDL won't help that much, to be honest.
Original post by Sorcerer of Old
I'm sorry, but doing the exact same degree somewhere else just for the sake of getting a first is absolutely beyond ridiculous. If it was a different degree then maybe, but the same one?? Nah, that's a huge waste of time and money and it would also probably be incredibly boring having to repeat many of the same modules and concepts.
I didn't say degree in the same subject! My degree is not in law.
Original post by Lea1995
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
This is not a good reason to do a second undergraduate degree. That's basically the long and short of it. There are actually almost no doors opened up by a 1st class degree compared to a 2:1 in the first place; the very narrow range of things it might have made a difference for, I strongly suspect achieving that in your second degree will negate that benefit anyway. I don't think doing a second degree and getting a 1st class mark is going to ameliorate getting a 2:1 in your original undergraduate degree for the Bar - @Crazy Jamie might be able to advise?
There are also practical reasons why it's also not realistic anyway. You won't get funded for a second undergraduate degree unless it's an exception course - and all exception courses are allied health professions degrees (which are designed to prepare you for specific vocations and are not largely traditionally academic degrees which is what the Bar is looking for a 1st from anyway, I gather - acing your nursing placements is a signifcant achievement to be sure, but probably does not develop the skills the Bar is looking for), or part-time STEM degrees. I'd note also in general neither of those types of courses are normally available at those kinds of "top" unis you are considering. So you'd need to pay up £9250 (or more! as the cap on tuition fee increases is going away in a couple of years) per year, plus your living costs (which in London are astronomical). Cambridge is completely a non-consideration as you'd need to pay the college fee in addition to the tuition fees and living costs in Cambridge (which are nearly as much as London). Also as you aren't eligible for SFE funding for any degrees offered by those unis you would not be eligible for any income based bursaries or scholarships there normally either.
I think you have a bit of a complex about your degree result which is the actual issue here, and that's something that doing any number of degrees isn't going to solve. A 2:1 from any uni is a good result, and from Oxford is particularly good given how intensive the courses are there. Doing a second degree isn't going to actually address the reason you feel this way about your original degree result, which I am very confident is more of a psychological factor than a practical factor. Suppose you do go back and get a 1st class degree in a second BA - then later in life, you get less than "perfect" outcomes again. Are you just going to breakdown then? Insist on somehow repeating the experience (which FYI, is not something you generally get the opportunity to do in the workplace)?
If your goal is to become a barrister there are probably far more productive ways to achieve that. If your goal is to become a barrister at only the most competitive sets in the UK then I think you need to seriously manage your expectations. However as above, I strongly suspect that a lot of this is due to some lingering sense of impostor syndrome and relentless obsession with grades that go hand in hand with being a highly achieving student and going to a university like Oxford very often. And I think this is the thing that needs to be addressed, personally.
hello Lea 
i don't know what educational qualifications that your preferred career places look for, but if they value a first class undergraduate degree, i would start another undergraduate degree and receive the first
i don't know if the cost will harm you though
i don't know what educational qualifications that your preferred career places look for, but if they value a first class undergraduate degree, i would start another undergraduate degree and receive the first
i don't know if the cost will harm you though
Original post by Lea1995
I graduated with a solid 2:1 from Oxford university six years ago, and have been filled with deep regret ever since.
While many consider that a success, for me it really wasn't; I just had not applied myself and knew I was capable of more. At the time, I wasn't that upset; I was wrapped up in my own personal problems, and just wanted to leave Oxford and have a fresh start.
I did the bare minimum work in my final year, riding on most of what I did in second year. I know I was capable of getting a first; I had a first class average in my second year.
In my final year, I had some personal problems which meant that I didn't prioritise academic work. At the time, I didn't feel guilty about it - but now I wish I'd addressed my personal issues at the time, so that I could focus on the work.
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
If I save up enough money from my current employment, and do a second BA at Cambridge or UCL/LSE/Kings, and actually put the work in this time, will my first degree result still be taken into consideration?
Some people say that a second BA is a huge waste of time and money, particularly since I won't be guaranteed a pupillage even if I do excel. Yet I feel as though my lack of a First is what is really preventing me from being considered by London Chambers, and that is to say decent London sets, not those three or four "superstar" sets (i.e. Brick Court, Blackstone), which are ridiculously competitive.
While many consider that a success, for me it really wasn't; I just had not applied myself and knew I was capable of more. At the time, I wasn't that upset; I was wrapped up in my own personal problems, and just wanted to leave Oxford and have a fresh start.
I did the bare minimum work in my final year, riding on most of what I did in second year. I know I was capable of getting a first; I had a first class average in my second year.
In my final year, I had some personal problems which meant that I didn't prioritise academic work. At the time, I didn't feel guilty about it - but now I wish I'd addressed my personal issues at the time, so that I could focus on the work.
I really want a first class undergraduate degree; not just for the sake of having it, and for my own ego, but because it will open far more doors for me career-wise (such as at the London Bar).
If I save up enough money from my current employment, and do a second BA at Cambridge or UCL/LSE/Kings, and actually put the work in this time, will my first degree result still be taken into consideration?
Some people say that a second BA is a huge waste of time and money, particularly since I won't be guaranteed a pupillage even if I do excel. Yet I feel as though my lack of a First is what is really preventing me from being considered by London Chambers, and that is to say decent London sets, not those three or four "superstar" sets (i.e. Brick Court, Blackstone), which are ridiculously competitive.
A lot more goes into a pupillage application than your undergraduate grade. A 2:1 is fine. Even if you were to go on to get a First in another undergraduate degree, that original grade is still relevant and will still be taken into consideration. The overall improvement in the way that sets see your academic profile is almost certainly not worth another three years of study and the expense that comes with it. As someone who has sifted countless pupillage applications, I highly doubt that the fact that you have a 2:1 and not a First is the reason why you are not being 'considered' by decent London sets. Even if it was preventing you from securing a higher number of interviews, you should still be getting a good number of interviews if your application was otherwise strong.
Which brings me to my next set of questions, which are about your pupillage application. What have you been doing for the last six years? Have you been gaining relevant legal work experience? Are you working in the law? Why have you not done the GDL or bar course yet? Have you applied for pupillage, and if so how many applications and over how many years? I expect the answers to those questions are more relevant as to why you are not getting pupillage interviews. If you haven't started the GDL you need to apply for pupillages that are due to start two years in advance, and that immediately means that pupillage starting the same year or one year in advance (which is most of them) are not within your reach. I expect the answer to getting more pupillage interviews is actually finishing the academic route to the Bar and focusing your application. But if you answer those questions I can give you more guidance on that.
It's sad that you didn't do your best in your final year, and I understand feeling disappointed. I sympathise with you on that. However, this is not a good reason to take a second undergraduate degree. In the professional world, there isn't that much difference between a 2:1 and a first class. I think this is more than just a career-driven quest. You want to prove that you are capable of doing better. However, it's important to consider the pros and cons of any steps you take.
Why not do a Masters if you want to prove that you can overcome academic challenges? At least, with a Masters, you'll open more professional doors for yourself and won't have to spend as much money or time in school. A 2:1 with a Masters is better than a first class. Many people go on to do Masters or PhDs with a 2:1 from their unis including Oxbridge graduates.
Why not do a Masters if you want to prove that you can overcome academic challenges? At least, with a Masters, you'll open more professional doors for yourself and won't have to spend as much money or time in school. A 2:1 with a Masters is better than a first class. Many people go on to do Masters or PhDs with a 2:1 from their unis including Oxbridge graduates.
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