Is this a retarded reason? I'm not necessarily saying it is or isn't correct, but either way, I think that it's a perfectly valid reason for somebody to be vegetarian.

Reply 63

guitarmike456

9

Original post by -Invidious-

Saw an episode of Come dine with me earlier and it got me thinking; anyone else notice the majority of "vegetarians" our age (17-23) are usually females just merely trying to be hip/cool/different? With completely retarded reasons for being vegetarian, such as "we don't have a necessary enzyme that digests meat" and "killing animals is wrong", all the while wearing leather and more often that not eating fish "because they're not as smart".

I'm male, vegetarian, don't eat fish or wear leather...
As has been said before, people who eat fish aren't vegetarian.
nice one.

Reply 64

Sammydemon

18

Original post by Cybele

OK, fair point. But what about, for example, chimpanzees - our closest living relative - they don't 'require' meat, but they will hunt when they want to. Same with any omnivore really.

You are confusing "want" with need. At best our ancestors would have been scavengers of meat in desperate times. Without good tools (which would have been rare) the hunt would have consumed too much energy to be a viable option anyway.

It is only with the advent of technology and domestication that mass production of meat has been possible. The way animals are treated in these industrialised situations is very poor though and people should do more to stop the unnecessary suffering.

I presume you advocate the consumption of meat?

Reply 65

guitarmike456

9

Original post by Cybele

OK, fair point. But what about, for example, chimpanzees - our closest living relative - they don't 'require' meat, but they will hunt when they want to. Same with any omnivore really.

I agree with this.

Unless you're choosing Halal/kosher meat, then the animal is stunned before the throat is cut. It's instantly brain dead. It's probably a nicer way to go then when an animal is hunted in the wild.

^completely disagree with this, an animal hunted in the wild has lived a free life, which there is absolutely no comparison with to a farmed animal, who has never had a chance. That's what put me off eating meat.
Also you should know it isn't humane, that's what people tell themselves to justify it, when of course the meat feels pain, it is the way they're programmed and there is no way around it. For example chickens are hung upside down on by their legs for the last 5 minutes of their lives on a machine, and their neck is cut by a rotating blade. This isn't 100% efficient as the chickens swing, if they are partially cut they are put right back at the front of this machine to go round for another 5 minutes whilst slowly bleeding to death only to be cut again. There's no way you can justify that as humane.

Reply 66

username388799

13

Which argument in favour of animal rights bridges the is-ought gap?

Reply 67

Cybele

14

Again, you're using analogies which have nothing to do with this argument. That some people rape has got sod all to do with whether it's right or wrong to kill animals for meat.

I understand the vast majority of animals don't share our moral capacity. But if I use the example of the chimpanzee again (as our closest living relative, highly intelligent, and possessing the ability to make 'moral' judgements) - they will hunt when they want to, though they don't need to eat meat at all. How would you respond to that?

I would also ask what makes your moral standards the 'correct' standards? I've used my moral capacity to decide whether eating meat is OK, and I conclude that it is. So now what? Am I wrong, just because my moral reasoning doesn't comply with yours?

Reply 68

rufus_da_bear

13

Original post by tillytots

been a veggie all my life. Never tried meat and never had the desire too. So no, I'm not trying to be cool or different

im sort of the same, except i have tried meat and havnt liked it, i find the texture of it weird and not very nice :/ funny as everyone told me as soon as i had bacon i wouldnt be a vegetarian anymore! lol. iv even tried alpaca but i feel a bit guilty about that one cause theyre so cute. it wasnt even nice.

Reply 69

aeterno

15

I've been one all my life. I hardly thought it was cool or rebellious when I was crawling around and it clearly isn't that way now.

I don't particularly see how it's any of your business what I eat. I don't go around preaching vegetarianism so what makes you think you have the right to bang on about what I'm eating? If you like meat, fine, go ahead and eat it. I'm not going to stop you and I don't particular care what you eat. My life isn't so insignificant that I have to worry about such things.

So stop being such a self-righteous git and get over yourself.

Reply 70

username388799

13

Yes I do understand you favour some form of utilitarianism. I used her post to pose a question. I'm curious as to how people go from "pain is bad" (or at least inflicting pain is bad) to "we ought to minimise/stop inflicting pain". Isn't that the argument?

Reply 71

Cybele

14

Original post by Sammydemon

It is only with the advent of technology and domestication that mass production of meat has been possible. The way animals are treated in these industrialised situations is very poor though and people should do more to stop the unnecessary suffering.

I presume you advocate the consumption of meat?

Not all animals who are bred for meat, suffer. If you are willing to pay for it, then you can ensure you meat comes from a source with high animal welfare standards. You're absolutely right when you say we should be doing more to prevent unnecessary suffering, and there's no reason why farm animals should have to suffer in the slightest. But it's hard to convince people to buy expensive meat when cheaper meat is available.

I wouldn't consider myself an advocate. I like meat, I don't consider it immoral to consume it (within reason), I just find a few of the arguments against eating meat completely bizarre/unfounded.

Original post by guitarmike456

^completely disagree with this, an animal hunted in the wild has lived a free life, which there is absolutely no comparison with to a farmed animal, who has never had a chance. That's what put me off eating meat.
Also you should know it isn't humane, that's what people tell themselves to justify it, when of course the meat feels pain, it is the way they're programmed and there is no way around it. For example chickens are hung upside down on by their legs for the last 5 minutes of their lives on a machine, and their neck is cut by a rotating blade. This isn't 100% efficient as the chickens swing, if they are partially cut they are put right back at the front of this machine to go round for another 5 minutes whilst slowly bleeding to death only to be cut again. There's no way you can justify that as humane.

An animal in the wild is also exposed to predators, injuries, illness, hunger etc etc. Farm animals are protected from all of this.
I would absolutely love to be able to kill my own meat. I believe all meat eaters should be willing to do this as well. If I had the opportunity, I would, but I don't, so I just have to be more aware of where my meat is sourced from.

Reply 72

dnumberwang

12

Why are most vegetarians women though?

Reply 73

username388799

13

Ok. Where do you base your belief that we shouldn't eat meat (or use animals) on?

Reply 74

guitarmike456

9

Original post by Cybele

An animal in the wild is also exposed to predators, injuries, illness, hunger etc etc. Farm animals are protected from all of this.
I would absolutely love to be able to kill my own meat. I believe all meat eaters should be willing to do this as well. If I had the opportunity, I would, but I don't, so I just have to be more aware of where my meat is sourced from.

Yes, but THAT is true cause, its natural predators, which we are not. There is no chance at freedom from farmed animals. I'm not preaching my personal choices, just saying that farming animals isn't natural, everything deserves a right to freedom.

Reply 75

callum9999

16

Original post by -Invidious-

Saw an episode of Come dine with me earlier and it got me thinking; anyone else notice the majority of "vegetarians" our age (17-23) are usually females just merely trying to be hip/cool/different? With completely retarded reasons for being vegetarian, such as "we don't have a necessary enzyme that digests meat" and "killing animals is wrong", all the while wearing leather and more often that not eating fish "because they're not as smart".

Until I befriended someone who decided me being vegetarian is a fact everyone and anyone needs to know, only a handful of people knew I was vegetarian. I'd imagine a lot of people are the same. The only people who tend to find out are people who I live with and people who are going to cook a meal for me.

Reply 76

callum9999

16

Original post by dnumberwang

Why are most vegetarians women though?

Who says they are?

Stereotypically men are more into eating meat then women anyway so perhaps it's easier for a woman to give it up?

Reply 77

Cybele

14

Original post by guitarmike456

Yes, but THAT is true cause, its natural predators, which we are not. There is no chance at freedom from farmed animals. I'm not preaching my personal choices, just saying that farming animals isn't natural, everything deserves a right to freedom.

How are you defining 'natural' exactly? You seem to be ignoring the fact that humans are also predators.

Reply 78

Hylean

15

Original post by Cybele

How are you defining 'natural' exactly? You seem to be ignoring the fact that humans are also predators.

According to whom? Being forced to eat meat does not make us predators.

Original post by Cybele

OK, fair point. But what about, for example, chimpanzees - our closest living relative - they don't 'require' meat, but they will hunt when they want to. Same with any omnivore really.

We might not be omnivores. That said, I've never heard of chimpanzees hunting for meat, will have to check that out.

Original post by Cybele

Unless you're choosing Halal/kosher meat, then the animal is stunned before the throat is cut. It's instantly brain dead. It's probably a nicer way to go then when an animal is hunted in the wild.

Psh, you're naive if you think that's true. Don't get me wrong, it's true in most cases, but often it's not. However, that still doesn't stop it being immoral, if you believe that murder is immoral. Put yourself in the shoes of the animal and tell me you'd happily be killed, having lived a life in captivity, all because the murder was "humane".