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The Ultimate England Thread
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We must have someone better than Shelvey, surely, somewhere.
Did Pearce actually put Caulker into the right wing position 
Original post by 419
The defending is so dire. Just no positional awareness.
I'd suggest foreign coaches at lower levels but then any victory would be tainted
Original post by little_wizard123
I'd suggest foreign coaches at lower levels but then any victory would be tainted
Tbf, the selection of Pearce as the coach is just absolutely peculiar. He went from doing absolutely terrible at City to the U21 coach. Someone like Steve Clarke would've flourished in the role.
Our next U21 manager should be someone who the FA view as being the next England manager. He needs to have a defined playing style and be able to get it to work effectively. So basically they manage the U21 team for the next 3-5 years til after Euro 2016 or WC2018, and then (if they're doing well) they take over the England job, and play the same way. It would be a natural progression that would allow the players to become used to a playing style and playing it together. When I say a defined playing style, it doesn't even have to be pretty tika-taka stuff, it can be Sam Allardyce for all I care, as long as it is something that can work on the international stage.
That said, I would prefer good passing football as opposed to hoofing it up, and I think we have the young players capable of doing it with the likes of Wilshere/Hendo/Cleverley/Rodwell. But the point is, when have any of those players EVER played together? I don't think they have, despite being similar ages. Players should be kept in the U21's until they are no longer eligible, unless they really have the ability to make an immediate impact and offer something we don't already have in the senior team (eg, Owen in 1998, Rooney in 2004).
I also think PL teams should be required to have at least one English/Welsh U21 player in their starting 11, and at least three English/Welsh U21 players in the matchday squad (starting 11 + subs). I added in the Welsh bit because it would probably be a bit unfair to expect Swansea/Cardiff to play English U21 players.
That said, I would prefer good passing football as opposed to hoofing it up, and I think we have the young players capable of doing it with the likes of Wilshere/Hendo/Cleverley/Rodwell. But the point is, when have any of those players EVER played together? I don't think they have, despite being similar ages. Players should be kept in the U21's until they are no longer eligible, unless they really have the ability to make an immediate impact and offer something we don't already have in the senior team (eg, Owen in 1998, Rooney in 2004).
I also think PL teams should be required to have at least one English/Welsh U21 player in their starting 11, and at least three English/Welsh U21 players in the matchday squad (starting 11 + subs). I added in the Welsh bit because it would probably be a bit unfair to expect Swansea/Cardiff to play English U21 players.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by little_wizard123
That's such a flawed statement. English managers will develop, like English players, by working with people all over the world. If Rooney wins us the World Cup, is it tainted because SAF made him the player he is? Or if we changed our coaching system and based it on Spain's. It's just an English man using his knowledge acquired from various sources, including foreigners. Therefore, it's subjective how much foreign influence has had. Much like you're subjectively deciding that anybody below the manager isn't important enough to have an effect on the team 
You also made a statement that only developing countries should only be using foreign managers. Why? Because their own managers don't have the knowledge or talent to manage their national team.
Same as England.
You also made a statement that only developing countries should only be using foreign managers. Why? Because their own managers don't have the knowledge or talent to manage their national team.
Same as England.
Loads of English managers could manage England.
It's not hard.
If you can manage in the Premier League then you can manage England.
I think every country should have a foreign manager but I am more sympathetic towards developing football countries who lack any real football coaching expertise to a decent level e.g. Thailand or someone like that.
But I think FIFA should outlaw foreign managers in international football.
Original post by little_wizard123
I'd suggest foreign coaches at lower levels but then any victory would be tainted
Mate you ask the Germans, the Spanish, the Italians, the French, the Dutch, the Brazilians and the Argentinians.
They all agree with me.
Original post by TRS-T
Loads of English managers could manage England.
It's not hard.
If you can manage in the Premier League then you can manage England.
I think every country should have a foreign manager but I am more sympathetic towards developing football countries who lack any real football coaching expertise to a decent level e.g. Thailand or someone like that.
But I think FIFA should outlaw foreign managers in international football.
It's not hard.
If you can manage in the Premier League then you can manage England.
I think every country should have a foreign manager but I am more sympathetic towards developing football countries who lack any real football coaching expertise to a decent level e.g. Thailand or someone like that.
But I think FIFA should outlaw foreign managers in international football.
But they couldn't manage England better than a top class foreign manager
You say that you want England to do their best but then you deliberately try and stop England from winning.
In the PL at the moment there are 5 English managers, does that not tell you how poor a standard English managers are? Especially when it could easily be argued that not one of them will finish in the top half next season.
Can you at least acknowledge that whilst you want an English manager for England, it would actually be to the detriment of the team considering the manager would be at a lower level?
What is it with people looking for short fixes? Forcing English players to get game time when they are not ready or not of sufficient skill won't improve the England team.
Need to go back to understand why English players are not as good as players of other nationalities. Germany didn't take any short term fixes but they put in a structured plan in place back in 2002 and are now reaping the benefits. 10 years is a long time but England/English fans/senior staff don't want to do that - they want a fix today and ignore the fact that it takes time.
Need to go back to understand why English players are not as good as players of other nationalities. Germany didn't take any short term fixes but they put in a structured plan in place back in 2002 and are now reaping the benefits. 10 years is a long time but England/English fans/senior staff don't want to do that - they want a fix today and ignore the fact that it takes time.
Original post by CameronHayward
it would probably be a bit unfair to expect Swansea/Cardiff to play English U21 players.
No it wouldn't since it is an English league.
If they don't like it then they can join the Welsh league.
Original post by The Rusty Spork
But they couldn't manage England better than a top class foreign manager
You say that you want England to do their best but then you deliberately try and stop England from winning.
In the PL at the moment there are 5 English managers, does that not tell you how poor a standard English managers are? Especially when it could easily be argued that not one of them will finish in the top half next season.
Can you at least acknowledge that whilst you want an English manager for England, it would actually be to the detriment of the team considering the manager would be at a lower level?
You say that you want England to do their best but then you deliberately try and stop England from winning.
In the PL at the moment there are 5 English managers, does that not tell you how poor a standard English managers are? Especially when it could easily be argued that not one of them will finish in the top half next season.
Can you at least acknowledge that whilst you want an English manager for England, it would actually be to the detriment of the team considering the manager would be at a lower level?
Well Rooney couldn't play for England better than Messi or Ronaldo could so should we sign Messi or Ronaldo for England?
The point is that he's the best English striker so he's good enough to play for England.
If you're the best English manager you're good enough to manage England simply because you're the best in the coutry.
Of course we would do better with Mourinho than Hodgson but I would rather have Hodgson because at least we are not cheating and trying to buy success at international level.
Original post by TRS-T
x
You've failed to mention anything about club level management leading to international success. You could argue that club managers/coaches do more for an international team because this is where a player trains (like Rooney training under SAF like I mentioned). If all English players are playing under foreign coaches for 95% of the year, surely this has a bigger impact than a manager who just selects the team and tactics based on how England players have played under foreign management all season?
The point like everybody else has grasped is that you can keep going lower and lower, as the importance of a staff member to a team is completely subjective - a staff member wouldn't be employed if they didn't make a difference to the club.
Do we ban a player who learns from a foreign coach? I'm sure you could see that SAF has done more for Rooney's game than Hodgson...
Don't get me wrong, if there were better England managers, I'd prefer an English coach. But there aren't any.
Original post by little_wizard123
Don't get me wrong, if there were better England managers, I'd prefer an English coach. But there aren't any.
Don't get me wrong, if there were better England managers, I'd prefer an English coach. But there aren't any.
Well how about instead of spending £50m on foreign managers we invest that money in trying to produce some better English managers.
This is what's wrong with the English mentality.
'English managers and players are not good enough. Let's get in some foreigners.'
Compare that to the Germans.
'German managers and players are not enough. Let's make them better in the future,'
Original post by TRS-T
Well how about instead of spending £50m on foreign managers we invest that money in trying to produce some better English managers.
This is what's wrong with the English mentality.
'English managers and players are not good enough. Let's get in some foreigners.'
Compare that to the Germans.
'German managers and players are not enough. Let's make them better in the future,'
This is what's wrong with the English mentality.
'English managers and players are not good enough. Let's get in some foreigners.'
Compare that to the Germans.
'German managers and players are not enough. Let's make them better in the future,'
You didn't really address anything else I said.
But, why should a club care about English players? They only care about their own success - if foreigners are better and cheaper then it's fair that they will use foreign players/coaches.
The problem is coaching at lower levels - if you look at the number of coaches you'll see that England has about 10-20% of qualified coaches compared to other top leagues. This is where the problem is - English coaches and thus players coming through aren't good enough.
Those two situations you mention aren't mutually exclusive. The second point is more of an investment by the FA whereas the first one is a club issue. But like I said, clubs aren't going to take English players that aren't good enough and that are incredibly overpriced. You can't blame clubs for it.
If more were invested at lower levels i.e. more and better coaches, better English coaches would come through as there are more of them, and better players would result from this. This is something for the FA to address, not coaches. Employing English coaches at the top level who aren't good enough to achieve success won't help - how will players learn?
Original post by Zerforax
Germany didn't take any short term fixes but they put in a structured plan in place back in 2002 and are now reaping the benefits.
An interesting point, which is all too often overlooked, is that Germany only managed to do that because their major PayTV company collapsed (yes, in 2002 !), meaning the Bundesliga clubs suddenly faced lack of funds, meaning foreign players became too expensive, meaning they were willing to go along with developing home grown players for financial reasons.
Meaning you probably won't be able to do this in the premier league, because it is too rich!
Original post by little_wizard123
You didn't really address anything else I said.
But, why should a club care about English players? They only care about their own success - if foreigners are better and cheaper then it's fair that they will use foreign players/coaches.
The problem is coaching at lower levels - if you look at the number of coaches you'll see that England has about 10-20% of qualified coaches compared to other top leagues. This is where the problem is - English coaches and thus players coming through aren't good enough.
Those two situations you mention aren't mutually exclusive. The second point is more of an investment by the FA whereas the first one is a club issue. But like I said, clubs aren't going to take English players that aren't good enough and that are incredibly overpriced. You can't blame clubs for it.
If more were invested at lower levels i.e. more and better coaches, better English coaches would come through as there are more of them, and better players would result from this. This is something for the FA to address, not coaches. Employing English coaches at the top level who aren't good enough to achieve success won't help - how will players learn?
But, why should a club care about English players? They only care about their own success - if foreigners are better and cheaper then it's fair that they will use foreign players/coaches.
The problem is coaching at lower levels - if you look at the number of coaches you'll see that England has about 10-20% of qualified coaches compared to other top leagues. This is where the problem is - English coaches and thus players coming through aren't good enough.
Those two situations you mention aren't mutually exclusive. The second point is more of an investment by the FA whereas the first one is a club issue. But like I said, clubs aren't going to take English players that aren't good enough and that are incredibly overpriced. You can't blame clubs for it.
If more were invested at lower levels i.e. more and better coaches, better English coaches would come through as there are more of them, and better players would result from this. This is something for the FA to address, not coaches. Employing English coaches at the top level who aren't good enough to achieve success won't help - how will players learn?
I'm not talking about club football. That's different.
Club football = Try and assemble the strongest team possible using players and managers from around the world to try and achieve success
International football = Take the best people from your country and pit them against the best people from another country and see who comes out on top.
Foreign managers (and players) in international football devalues it and it just becomes club football again.
We need to keep them separate and distinct otherwise what's the point?
With the under 20 world cup approaching In 12 days, I'm just wondering how far England will get
Just looking at the squad, I really don't see how England are going progress through the tournament and for times to come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-20_football_team
Is there any hope, because for me personally, I see that squad getting trounced
Just looking at the squad, I really don't see how England are going progress through the tournament and for times to come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-20_football_team
Is there any hope, because for me personally, I see that squad getting trounced
The good news is our defending has been better this game.
The bad news is our striker (wickham lol) is still crap, Shelvey is still crap, Chalobah has been poor again, and Henderson (who is usually good) has been crap again
Something about this tournament has brought the **** side out of the midfield.
Israel scored, as expected, embarrassing really.
The bad news is our striker (wickham lol) is still crap, Shelvey is still crap, Chalobah has been poor again, and Henderson (who is usually good) has been crap again
Something about this tournament has brought the **** side out of the midfield.
Israel scored, as expected, embarrassing really.
(edited 10 years ago)
Weird as hell, not lost in 18+ months then lose all 3 games in the Euros... That's not even a bad squad, they're alright players usually!
Original post by niceguy95
With the under 20 world cup approaching In 12 days, I'm just wondering how far England will get
Just looking at the squad, I really don't see how England are going progress through the tournament and for times to come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-20_football_team
Is there any hope, because for me personally, I see that squad getting trounced
Just looking at the squad, I really don't see how England are going progress through the tournament and for times to come
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-20_football_team
Is there any hope, because for me personally, I see that squad getting trounced
It's strange, the same age-group won the U17 Euro 2010, but I don't see a lot of the same names in the squad (although a few are in the U21 squad). Interestingly though looking at that, I see there is 'Eric Dier' in the squad who plays for Sporting Lisbon, one of the best academies in the world. FINALLY an english youngster has realised they will become a better footballer if they go abroad. looking further into it, he's also made 15 appearances for the senior team this season, which at 19 seems promising.
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