The Ultimate England Thread

Original post by skotch

My ratings (based on 5 being average, not like most of these rankings that put 7 as average):
Hart - 5
Walker - 6
Baines - 7
Cahill - 4
Jagielka - 5 (Jones - 5)
Gerrard - 5 (Oxlade-Chamberlain - 5)
Walcott - 6 (Zaha - 7)
Wilshere - 4 (Lampard - 5)
Cleverley - 9 (Milner - 4)
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4 (Lambert - 8)

Zaha seven? Upon what grounds? He was extraordinarily mediocre.

Reply 8042

Original post by poiuytrewq54321

Gerrard was terrible today whoever says otherwise is a Liverpool fan. Every long pass was intercepted and didn't provide anything to the team than what Cleverly does at United most of the time (play sidewards and the odd pass forward that doesn't come off). In fact Lampard was much better than Gerrard today. Cleverly was better than usual but nothing special other than the pass for the goal.

Doesn't even deserve a proper response. Gerrard did just as well as Cleverley going forward and defended better. So if Gerrard was terrible Cleverley must have been ****ing ****e.

Original post by skotch

My ratings (based on 5 being average, not like most of these rankings that put 7 as average):
Hart - 5
Walker - 6
Baines - 7
Cahill - 4
Jagielka - 5 (Jones - 5)
Gerrard - 5 (Oxlade-Chamberlain - 5)
Walcott - 6 (Zaha - 7)
Wilshere - 4 (Lampard - 5)
Cleverley - 9 (Milner - 4)
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4 (Lambert - 8)

Baines 7? Gerrard 5? Cleverley 9? Lambert 8? Zaha 7?

Reply 8043

doobucks

Original post by KingMessi

Zaha seven? Upon what grounds? He was extraordinarily mediocre.

The rating system was a joke think Zaha only did one pass and one cross that found another player

Reply 8044

Willum Infanta

Ah, I remember watching Lambert play at Stockport County - he's come a long way :h:

Reply 8045

Original post by Deshi

Doesn't even deserve a proper response. Gerrard did just as well as Cleverley going forward and defended better. So if Gerrard was terrible Cleverley must have been ****ing ****e.

Well you're clearly just being biased. I'm just giving my opinion on what I saw. And how did Gerrard do just as well as Cleverly? Cleverly provided the assist for the goal whereas Gerrard didn't do much if anything to even get close to providing an assist. In fact every time Gerrard had the ball he passed it to Wilshere who provided more balls forward and tried to push forward than Gerrard did all game.

And Gerrard was playing as an hold in midfielder and so clearly his gonna be defending more than Cleverly did so yes you're probably right about that.

Reply 8046

Original post by poiuytrewq54321

Well you're clearly just being biased. I'm just giving my opinion on what I saw. And how did Gerrard do just as well as Cleverly? Cleverly provided the assist for the goal whereas Gerrard didn't do much if anything to even get close to providing an assist. In fact every time Gerrard had the ball he passed it to Wilshere who provided more balls forward and tried to push forward than Gerrard did all game. And Gerrard was playing as an hold in midfielder and so clearly his gonna be defending more than Cleverly did so yes you're probably right about that.

And you the United fan aren't? Gerrard provided an assist in this match (should have actually had two after that great ball to Rooney, wrongly disallowed for offside). When you're in a midfield three you're still expected to defend and the quality and quantity of Gerrard's defending was much better. So basically yeah, he was just as effective going forward and more effective in defence.

Reply 8047

doobucks

Cleverley-9 too :rofl:

(6/7 at best)

Reply 8048

Malevolent

Original post by jam277

Cleverley-9 too :rofl:

(6/7 at best)

Hart a 5 ?!? :redface:

Reply 8049

doobucks

Original post by Malevolent

Hart a 5 ?!? :redface:

Possibly the worst ratings system ever

Reply 8050

skotch

Original post by KingMessi

Zaha seven? Upon what grounds? He was extraordinarily mediocre.

Original post by Deshi

Doesn't even deserve a proper response. Gerrard did just as well as Cleverley going forward and defended better. So if Gerrard was terrible Cleverley must have been ****ing ****e.

Baines 7? Gerrard 5? Cleverley 9? Lambert 8? Zaha 7?

Original post by jam277

The rating system was a joke think Zaha only did one pass and one cross that found another player

Ok, maybe I was a bit generous to some. I thought that was Cleverley's best game in an England shirt and made some superb passes.

Lambert scored his first ever England goal after 2mins45 - that's insane! I can imagine he was really nervous, so to score and to almost score 2 further times shows great composure and maturity.

Baines was quality, I don't know why you guys are doubting that one. He was consistent and made some decent runs forward. Scotland weren't a threat down the right wing at all really.

Gerrard was just a bit average, didn't do all that much.

Zaha came on and I thought he showed some promise and added flair that has been missing in that England side, he made some decent passes and looked lively; similar to Chamberlain usually plays.

You guys are dismissing young guys that are coming in and playing alright and showing promise; that's what everyone's been banging on about for years - getting rid of the old guard that achieved next to nothing and replacing them with a bit of youth. We're not world beaters and probably won't be for many years, so maybe show a bit of optimism and be proud that we can consistently compete at a decent level.

Reply 8051

Original post by Deshi

And you the United fan aren't? Gerrard provided an assist in this match (should have actually had two after that great ball to Rooney, wrongly disallowed for offside). When you're in a midfield three you're still expected to defend and the quality and quantity of Gerrard's defending was much better. So basically yeah, he was just as effective going forward and more effective in defence.

I support United yes but when England play I support England so I don't care who plays good or badly from my team or anyone else's. I just hope for an England win and today it could have gone either way because of a lack of impotence from midfield which was clear to see. Wilshere didn't have a good game same goes will Gerrard who didn't provide enough assistance in going forward. It's all good saying he defended well but he's there to push forward and today he didn't do it. And yes he assisted in the goal but he didn't do enough in midfield. Unusually for him long passes were poor and gave the ball away quite a few times (like did Wilshere). And like I said Cleverly didn't do anything special other than the pass for the goal but he moved it forward quite often today (most of the time he passes it sidewards especially for United).

Gerrard is more experienced and I expect better from him wasn't his best days.

Reply 8052

419

14

Are you guys seriously fighting over who played best from your team against an irrelevant team in an exhibition game.

United fans clearly been deluded. Zaha a 9 :lolwut:

England clearly a waste of space- not only did they struggle to beat Scotland, they actually let them score twice as well. Said it before, will say it again, in grave danger of not making the WC. People need to wake up.

Reply 8053

Original post by skotch

Ok, maybe I was a bit generous to some. I thought that was Cleverley's best game in an England shirt and made some superb passes.

Yet you can probably only name one

Lambert scored his first ever England goal after 2mins45 - that's insane! I can imagine he was really nervous, so to score and to almost score 2 further times shows great composure and maturity.

The first chance he missed was a sitter. Only selected because Hodgson wants to try and show he picks players on form which is bull****.

Baines was quality, I don't know why you guys are doubting that one. He was consistent and made some decent runs forward. Scotland weren't a threat down the right wing at all really.

Baines was good, didn't really have anything to do though so hard to judge.

Gerrard was just a bit average, didn't do all that much.

Got an assist (should have had 2) and equaled the most tackles in the match with Jagielka.

Zaha came on and I thought he showed some promise and added flair that has been missing in that England side, he made some decent passes and looked lively; similar to Chamberlain usually plays.

Hardly justifies the rating you gave him

Just so you know I think the whole team was average.

Reply 8054

Original post by 419

Are you guys seriously fighting over who played best from your team against an irrelevant team in an exhibition game.

United fans clearly been deluded. Zaha a 9 :lolwut:

England clearly a waste of space- not only did they struggle to beat Scotland, they actually let them score twice as well. Said it before, will say it again, in grave danger of not making the WC. People need to wake up.

I thought Zaha was completely ineffective as he was in the Wigan game I must say. I'd give him a 2 and thats being generous. He complicates it so much at times when theres no need to do so.

Reply 8055

Original post by poiuytrewq54321

I support United yes but when England play I support England so I don't care who plays good or badly from my team or anyone else's. I just hope for an England win and today it could have gone either way because of a lack of impotence from midfield which was clear to see. Wilshere didn't have a good game same goes will Gerrard who didn't provide enough assistance in going forward. It's all good saying he defended well but he's there to push forward and today he didn't do it.

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. You pointed out in the last post that Gerrard was playing holding midfield so should be defending more and then you go on to say the bolded part. So basically you expect Gerrard to defend more then him and also press forward as much. Interesting argument

And yes he assisted in the goal but he didn't do enough in midfield. Unusually for him long passes were poor and gave the ball away quite a few times (like did Wilshere). And like I said Cleverly didn't do anything special other than the pass for the goal but he moved it forward quite often today (most of the time he passes it sidewards especially for United).

Gerrard is more experienced and I expect better from him wasn't his best days.

What does that even mean, honestly? Gerrard tackled more then any other midfielder and probably played as many balls forward as Cleverley.

Reply 8056

Mechie

15

Original post by 419

Are you guys seriously fighting over who played best from your team against an irrelevant team in an exhibition game.

How the hell are we defining "irrelevant team"? You can say they're not very good by international standards, but "irrelevant"? How insulting, Scotland are just as "relevant" as England, whatever that may mean.

Reply 8057

KingMessi

Original post by Deshi

Doesn't even deserve a proper response. Gerrard did just as well as Cleverley going forward and defended better. So if Gerrard was terrible Cleverley must have been ****ing ****e.

Baines 7? Gerrard 5? Cleverley 9? Lambert 8? Zaha 7?

The best bit about this is that apparently five is 'average', meaning that Cleverley's performance was apparently Gerrard-in-Istanbul-esque.

Original post by jam277

The rating system was a joke think Zaha only did one pass and one cross that found another player

Original post by skotch

Ok, maybe I was a bit generous to some. I thought that was Cleverley's best game in an England shirt and made some superb passes.

Lambert scored his first ever England goal after 2mins45 - that's insane! I can imagine he was really nervous, so to score and to almost score 2 further times shows great composure and maturity.

Baines was quality, I don't know why you guys are doubting that one. He was consistent and made some decent runs forward. Scotland weren't a threat down the right wing at all really.

Gerrard was just a bit average, didn't do all that much.

Zaha came on and I thought he showed some promise and added flair that has been missing in that England side, he made some decent passes and looked lively; similar to Chamberlain usually plays.

You guys are dismissing young guys that are coming in and playing alright and showing promise; that's what everyone's been banging on about for years - getting rid of the old guard that achieved next to nothing and replacing them with a bit of youth. We're not world beaters and probably won't be for many years, so maybe show a bit of optimism and be proud that we can consistently compete at a decent level.

No, Zaha made a few runs forward and did a lot of ineffectual showboating. 'Flair' is not a series of quick foot movements that look a bit clever, 'flair' is picking out passes, runs, and shots that others don't see. Zaha's crossing was dreadful and his passing mediocre. I would be a fool to rule him out, but I've certainly never been impressed by what I've seen from him. He's still very much a Championship level player - and if he's still at that level, he's nowhere near at the level he needs to be for international football. Chamberlain is a far more accomplished footballer.

I'm not 'dismissing' Zaha. I'm dismissing his performance tonight. In five years he may be a very good winger, though I really fail to see what all the fuss is about.

Reply 8058