German Hunter pays £39,000 to kill largest elephant in living memory

Original post by joey11223

Tbh I can still sometimes understand that as a conversation tool as controversial as it is. Lions/Tigers all over the world are euthanized at zoos when they're bred yet not needing in the zoological community (though obviously WAZA membership and the like is meant to co-ordinate to limit this), if letting some rich bloke pay £50,000 to shot an old Lion, particularly if captive bred anyway, gives a lot of funding to help conversation projects, maybe it's a necessary evil at times.

This is a myth - it gives a lot of money to the pocket of the landowner. What it does do, however ,is ,by giving him that money, incentivise him to keep the land wildlife friendly, providing good habitat for the animals which otherwise would probably be burnt and turned into farmland. More often than not they also employ ex poachers as guides, giving them employment and meaning there's no need for them to poach any more. Take that away and they go back to poaching.

Reply 122

If anything its better than eating farmed meat because the animal lead a nice fulfilling life in the wild, and wast part of a process emitting tonnes of methane and God knows what else into the environment, speeding up climate change and soil degradation...

Reply 123

Original post by DarkMagic

I don't think its quite the same thing. I don't eat a lot of meat (mostly just chicken and mince) but most of the meat people eat come from animals that are bred for that purpose. I'm not trying to defend that, but I do think there is a difference between lifting a packet of pork chops from a shelf and cooking them, to actually shooting the pig yourself and enjoying it.

On the other hand, this guy has paid nearly £40,000 for the satisfaction of killing a defenceless animal. To me, that is completely sick. He will celebrate his 'huge accomplishment', boast about it and then he will move on and kill something else. He should be locked up.

And yet people like him have conserved a million and more animals than you ever will...ironic isn't it?

By eating meat you're probably doing more harm to elephants, and African wildlife on the whole, than he ever will. Africa is the continent predicted to see the highest increase in temperature under climate change. Meat, especially sheep and cows, contribute a huge amount of emissions.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 124

DiddyDec01

3

Original post by redferry

And yet people like him have conserved a million and more animals than you ever will...ironic isn't it?

By eating meat you're probably doing more harm to elephats, and African Wildlife on the whole, than he ever will. Africa is the country predicted to see the highest increase in temperature under climate change. Meat, especially sheep and cows, contribute a huge amount of emissions.

Africa isn't a country...

Reply 125

You're talking rubbish.

Eating venison that has been shot to protect the environment is clearly not bad for the environment....

Farmed, yes, wild shot, no. If you have to shoot them anyway they may as well be eaten.

Reply 126

Original post by DiddyDec

Africa isn't a country...

Hahaha my bad, better correct that, I meant continent (pretty embarrassing for a PhD student studying climate change across the African continent!)

Reply 127

So you have now decided to lecture a vegetarian who is vegetarian purely for emissions purposes on the emissions of beef? You vegans really do know how to misdirect your efforts, I will give you that....

I was referring purely to your assertion that all meat eating is bad for the environment.

Your preference seems to be that rather than controlling deer numbers in this country we should allow populations to multiply unchecked, destroying all the natural habitat in this country and killing all our native species off in the process, before they then all die off themselves due to lack of resources, slowly and painfully from starvation. You would rather that happened, than we shot a few thousand deer each year. You're probably one of those nutters that opposes the feral cat culls in Australia as well. Totally barmy.

Reply 128

You give vegans a bad name, in fact, you give every single rational person like that is trying their hardest to inspire and encourage people to cut down on their meat and dairy consumption for the good of the planet a bad name. You undo all the good work we do in presenting rational reasonable arguments by going on rants, saying you have to cut out not cut down (which people are far more likely to do) and by calling into question peoples morals and characters. You perpetrate the loony vegan/vegetarian argument, and in all honesty, make me want to start eating meat again so that I am not associated with people like you.

It's because of people like you that my family cant accept my vegetarianism. I hope that makes you feel good.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 129

Captain Jack

Original post by CoolCavy

This is so sad. It isn't even that he poached the elephant to sell the ivory to feed his family. He did it for pure sickening 'fun'. Dispicable

http://www.youtubesub.com/news?id=14708&Anger-biggest-elephant-shot-living-memory-killed-German-hunter-Zimbabwean-game-park

:frown:

Insanity. Such a depressing image.

Hopefully one day the human race will be advanced enough to be able to protect natural habitats and wildlife to admire rather than succumbing to primitive instincts.

Reply 130

So not having a car, buying food locally, not eating meat and eating very little dairy, dedicating my entire life to conservation...is not leading by example?

The minute a tiny piece of cheese passes my lips does not completely undo all the effort I have put in elsewhere. If people just cut out meat one day a week we would cut down on emissions massively. I'm sure I have inspired far more people than you to cut down on their meat consumption.

I'm a scientist - scientifically your view that ALL meat is bad for the environment is rubbish. Without wildlife friendly cattle ranching African Wild Dogs would never have returned to my study site. The cows emissions are low because they are grazed throughout the bush and savannah - which would have been burned and converted to farmland without them. To you it is black and white, when in reality everything is relative.

Reply 131

Original post by Captain Jack

Insanity. Such a depressing image.

Hopefully one day the human race will be advanced enough to be able to protect natural habitats and wildlife to admire rather than succumbing to primitive instincts.

Who is going to pay for it then? You?

We can't magic up the money for conservation out of nowhere, unfortunately.

Reply 132

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by redferry

Except it isn't just to save one elephant. Private land where people can hunt means habitat kept for wildlife, as high numbers if wildlife are in the landowners interests. It means watering holes for the elephants to use. Without this literally hundreds, or even thousands of elephants, and numerous other species, would die. Hunting terrain is not pretty. It's scrubby and bushy and if you went on safari there you'd be lucky to see one elephant. It will never bring in money through tourism. Might bring some money in through converting it to farmland....or by burning the bush and poaching all the animals then turning it into farmland though. So how do you propose we protect this habitat and the animals that live in it?

People who hunt are *****, but in many parts of Africa they are the only reason that wild habitat still exists. If you all want to give your money up to protect these animals instead then fine, but short of that it's the only way to do it.

Farmers in this country complain they can't live alongside badgers for Christ sake, imagine how bad coexisting with elephants must be. It's so hypocritical expecting them to do so without paying for it.

Why do you have to **** on idealistic naive people all the time with your facts :frown:

CoolCavy is just your typical teenage girl that cares about animals that hasn't twigged how crappy and grey the world is and that to help animals you ahve to do counter intuitive things like let ****s shoot them.

Well we subsidize farmers anyway don't we? Why not subsidize any damage caused by wildlife. Charity isn't the only way of stopping it, regulation and interference by states can do it surely.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 133

Captain Jack

Original post by redferry

Who is going to pay for it then? You?

We can't magic up the money for conservation out of nowhere, unfortunately.

Actually, yes - I already am. These are the conservation charities I pay money to:
http://www.jackwallington.com/conservation-charities/

I encourage others to do the same, even a little bit. Individually you obviously can't unless you are a millionaire, but on mass, we can all make a big difference.

Start with the Scottish Wildcat Haven for some local impact conservation.

Reply 134

You're not convincing anyone to your cause with all this you know. I mean literally I just want to go and have a burger now just knowing how much you will froth at the mouth about it, and I don't even eat meat....

Also how can you publish a well known fact that has been published hundreds of times? Not sure you quite know how the publication process works.... (hint, it's about NEW science). You obviously haven't done that much reading if you haven't seen papers on that topic O-o

Reply 135

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Why do you have to **** on idealistic naive people all the time with your facts :frown:

CoolCavy is just your typical teenage girl that cares about animals that hasn't twigged how crappy and grey the world is and that to help animals you ahve to do counter intuitive things like let ****s shoot them.

Well we subsidize farmers anyway don't we? Why not subsidize any damage caused by wildlife. Charity isn't the only way of stopping it, regulation and interference by states can do it surely.

Because people need to actually do something if they care so much about these animals. Maybe if people realised then they would actually donate money to conservation/sustainable development efforts.

I used to be like that but now I'm thinking of going into politics to solve the bloody problem!

Not sure what you are getting at exactly but in Africa there's no way of regulating such huge swathes of land. You just get tonnes of poaching/illegal killing in most areas once hunting is banned. It's similar in the UK with grouse moors and hen harriers in fact.

Reply 136

Original post by Captain Jack

Actually, yes - I already am. These are the conservation charities I pay money to:
http://www.jackwallington.com/conservation-charities/

I encourage others to do the same, even a little bit. Individually you obviously can't unless you are a millionaire, but on mass, we can all make a big difference.

Start with the Scottish Wildcat Haven for some local impact conservation.

That ain't going to save any elephants though :wink:

Actually elephant conservation is bloody rolling in dosh, wish we had that much for wild dogs and cheetahs :frown:

They're endangered as well, not just bloody 'vulnerable', pssshh

I always say the best thing anyone can do for conservation is to get filthy stinking rich and buy up land and protect it/donate to world land trust. Wish I had done it, I'd be having far more of an impact than I do now...

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 137

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