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Jerusalem 'lorry attack' injures 15

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I think we should take account of the fact that people conscripted in the IDF don't have a say as to where they are deployed/stationed (although women are not deployed to the West Bank), and if they refuse conscription the alternative is generally a prison sentence.

I accept this is a fair point, and I do feel sorry for those Israelis who are forced to do military service against their wishes, and I've got a lot of respect for those brave enough to refuse to serve and take the punishment. I have similar sympathies for those Americans who were forced to serve in Vietnam against their will. But ultimately, we still have to make a combatant-civilian distinction, and conscripted soldiers have to fall in the former. Otherwise we'd have to make the perverse conclusion that states who force their citizenry to fight gain additional legal protections for their forces, incentivising everyone to have conscript armies.

Reply 41

jape

Original post by TaintedLight

Because lorries kills as many as people as guns do :yy:

When a terrorist is behind the wheel of one, lorries tend to kill more people. I know the majority of truck drivers are peaceful and don't kill people, but they don't count. Ban Assault Trucks.

Reply 42

Muwahid-

Original post by jape

Gee, that's a pretty scummy way of viewing the world you have there.

I'm not really a fan of terrorists.

:smile:

Reply 43

jape

Original post by Muwahid-

I'm not really a fan of terrorists.

:smile:

Funny, that's not the vibe I'm getting from your support of the terrorist Palestinian government.

Reply 44

jape

Oh, and the actual ****ing terrorist who just killed a bunch of people. How can you be so morally and intellectually empty? Christ.

Reply 45

the bear

Original post by Muwahid-

Instead of acting shocked, you should go read about the conditions in Gaza.

the "open air prisoners" are forced to wash in the sea

http://www.telesurtv.net/__export/1409499971154/sites/telesur/img/news/2014/08/31/gaza_beach.jpg_1718483346.jpg

Reply 46

the bear

the "open air prisoners" try to dig to freedom

http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/2012/10/03/gaza_city_beach_2012_0.jpg

Reply 47

the bear

the "open air prisoners" are reduced to eating this:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/palestinian-kid-sale-chocolate-at-gaza-city-main-market-gazans-use-to-picture-id525177248

Reply 48

JM999

http://m.jpost.com/#article=6017Rjk4MUQyNEUyODdCMTkxQzE5MzA3OUU1MzQzMTI0QTU=
Video of the attack

Reply 49

the bear

look at these grapes... they are not even washed

smh

http://cdn1.pri.org/sites/default/files/story/images/RTR3YZX2.jpg

Reply 50

Mr Moon Man

Original post by the bear

look at these grapes... they are not even washed

smh

http://cdn1.pri.org/sites/default/files/story/images/RTR3YZX2.jpg

Worse than the holocaust tbh

Reply 51

TheTruthTeller

Original post by the bear

the "open air prisoners" try to dig to freedom

http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/ww w.ibtimes.com/files/2012/10/03/gaza_city_beach_2012_0.jpg

And we all know what happend to that beach...

Bombed by 🇮🇱

Reply 52

Mr Moon Man

Original post by Len Goodman

The sooner we bomb "Palestine" the better. Israelis really can't catch a break, can they?

Why stop at Palestine?

Reply 53

anarchism101

Original post by jape

I absolutely disagree. George Galloway is an excellent example of this.

Not really. Galloway is a political pariah, for various reasons including this. His only electoral victory in the last decade was at a low-turnout by-election, and he lost the seat comfortably at the first full election contested after. In his most recent electoral outing, the London mayoral elections, he received just 1.4% of the vote.

Galloway lost his seat in that election, but his replacement was in hot water within a month for implying in a Facebook post that we should just pluck all the Jews out of Israel and drop them in America instead. Problem solved. Neither of them really suffered any consequences. Not that they should have been imprisoned, but certainly the Labour MP should have suffered disciplinary proceedings. She didn't.

i) Naz Shah implied no such thing. She reposted (before she was an MP) a blatantly satirical meme from Norman Finkelstein's website. Trying to infer such far-reaching serious motives from such an obviously non-serious post is a nonsensical pursuit.
ii) She did suffer consequences - she was suspended from the party for 2 months. She was readmitted in large part due to the Jewish Labour Movement and Bradford synagogue calling for her readmittance due to her apology.

Compare these to the case of that guy who said "bongo-bongo land" in the EU Parliament. Kicked out of UKIP within 48 hours, no questions asked.

Nope, Godfrey Bloom stuck around in UKIP with no substantial consequences for 2 months after the "bongo-bongo land" debacle. When action was taken, it was due to a series of problems rather than that particular one - the straw that broke the camel's back was actually him hitting Michael Crick with a party brochure. And even then, he just had the whip withdrawn - he wasn't actually thrown out of the party itself.

And that's basically nothing.

So Bloom's open crude racism is "basically nothing", but Shah must be mined for all sorts of supposed implications she never said in order to "prove" she's an anti-semite?

Let me put it this way. In 2015 YouGov did a study of prejudice in several Western European countries, including the UK, looking at prejudice towards five groups (Jews, Muslims, Black people, Roma and Gay people). In six of the seven, Jews were the least disliked group of the five (the one exception being Denmark, where dislike of Jews marginally outstripped dislike of gay people). In all seven, dislike of Jews was relatively low, overwhelmingly overshadowed by the hugely wide-reaching dislike of Roma and Muslims. The social acceptability of antiziganism pretty much knows no bounds.

Reply 54

anarchism101

Original post by Palmyra

It was in East Jerusalem, not Israel.

The driver deliberately targeted IDF soldiers stationed in East Jerusalem, who were therefore directly complicit in the military occupation (and gradual annexation) of Palestinian land and the subjugation of the Palestinian people.

If they are not a valid target for acts of self-defence/resisting a military occupation - then who is?

I'm out of rep but fully agree with this. People go on and on about Israel's "right to defend itself" by reducing Gaza to rubble every few years, but the Palestinians' right to self-defence apparently doesn't even extent to the right to target uniformed and armed soldiers.

It's all the same logic. According to the right, the Palestinians must do nothing and just let Israel take over whatever it wants. According to the liberal moderates, Palestinians must do nothing and just sit and hope that Israelis eventually elect Labor or Kadima, who will in their infinite generosity only want to annex ~10% of the West Bank.

Original post by Mathemagicien

One person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

As clever as this statement is, it's essentially meaningless. Forget the words, think about actions and intentions.

Did these Palestinians deliberately target people they knew were not an immediate threat to them, content with the pain and suffering this would cause? Yes.

Was the pain and suffering certain to happen if they succeeded in their aim? Was the pain and suffering a core part of their goal? Also yes.

There you have it. With little-to-no partisan inflection, we have proved that these deranged lunatics are bad people. If you still can't see that you're in denial or there's something genuinely wrong with you.

Reply 57

jape

Original post by the bear

the "open air prisoners" are reduced to eating this:

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/palestinian-kid-sale-chocolate-at-gaza-city-main-market-gazans-use-to-picture-id525177248

That poor kid is going to get cavities. Curse you, Jewish Global Conspiracy!

Reply 58

Jammy Duel

Original post by TaintedLight

Because lorries kills as many as people as guns do :yy:

Automobiles as a whole do, so let's ban all motor vehicles, not just the lorries that are becoming popular!

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 59

Jammy Duel

Original post by anarchism101

You're forgetting this little thing called "the Arab Israeli conflict" a brief overview of which is:

The Arabs control the whole middle east, then the Jews come along and are given some land, but the Arabs hate the Jews so try to take this land by force. They get their arises handed to them and the Jews are able to take some more land as their spoils of war. The Arabs try this a few times over and the same thing happens over and over. Most of the Arabs finally realise they're **** and can't beat Israel so resign themselves to the fact Israel exists. The end.

Wait, sorry, not the end, because you have the paramilitary cells left that seem to think they can somehow force Israel out despite being ***** slapped every few years when they finally get the resources to effectively throw a few rocks and just end up screwing over the people they're allegedly fighting for.

Posted from TSR Mobile

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Jerusalem 'lorry attack' injures 15

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