How can you defend a rapist?
Yesterday on Twitter, a person I followed retweeted a picture of a young, attractive-looking fellow at a music festival. He looked very happy and relaxed, wearing a Hawaiian shirt and just seemed to be chilling and smiling for the camera.
The accompanying words said, "This peasant below is an attempted rapist and date drug user". The next tweet linked to his Twitter account, thus effectively naming him (see pic at bottom... I have whited-out his face and the details of the tweeter). They also referred to the university he studies at (in America) and a politician with whom he is doing an internship.
A number of other women posted things along the lines of, "This guy is a creep, when we went on a date he started talking about sex immediately" or "He told me all these women he wants to sleep with". None of it actually amounted to confirmation of any rape allegation (to the extent such a tweet could even be considered confirmation)
I, along with a number of other people, responded that it was completely inappropriate to put up this guy's picture and accuse him of this, particularly as the woman posting it was not claiming she was a victim but that someone she knew was a victim. I said that we have a legal system for a reason, and that the best way for these allegations to be dealt with was by reporting them to the police.
I and the others were accused of "defending rapists" and asked how we could do this. To me that seems highly simplistic; making that accusation could ruin's someone's life, and doing it through twitter means the person tweeting it is not held accountable for the accuracy of the accusation. It also doesn't accord him the presumption of innocence and a fair opportunity to defend himself. It seems to me to be a form of lynch-mob 'justice'.
Thoughts?
The accompanying words said, "This peasant below is an attempted rapist and date drug user". The next tweet linked to his Twitter account, thus effectively naming him (see pic at bottom... I have whited-out his face and the details of the tweeter). They also referred to the university he studies at (in America) and a politician with whom he is doing an internship.
A number of other women posted things along the lines of, "This guy is a creep, when we went on a date he started talking about sex immediately" or "He told me all these women he wants to sleep with". None of it actually amounted to confirmation of any rape allegation (to the extent such a tweet could even be considered confirmation)
I, along with a number of other people, responded that it was completely inappropriate to put up this guy's picture and accuse him of this, particularly as the woman posting it was not claiming she was a victim but that someone she knew was a victim. I said that we have a legal system for a reason, and that the best way for these allegations to be dealt with was by reporting them to the police.
I and the others were accused of "defending rapists" and asked how we could do this. To me that seems highly simplistic; making that accusation could ruin's someone's life, and doing it through twitter means the person tweeting it is not held accountable for the accuracy of the accusation. It also doesn't accord him the presumption of innocence and a fair opportunity to defend himself. It seems to me to be a form of lynch-mob 'justice'.
Thoughts?
I agree. The tweet is potentially libellous and he should sue.
Original post by Good bloke
I agree. The tweet is potentially libellous and he should sue.
American libel laws favour defendants much more than do British libel laws as they have to be construed in a manner consistent with the First Amendment (freedom of speech) to the US Constitution. Whereas UK libel law requires the defendant to prove or justify their statement, in US libel law the claimant (the 'victim' ) must prove that the defendant either knew it was untrue and maliciously said it anyway, or they were completely reckless as to the likelihood of its truth.
Having said that, the Americans are much more liberal when it comes to what I think of as (to be honest) '********' or 'taking the piss' torts like "Intentional infliction of emotional distress".
But I'm with you that it is still potentially libellous, and in any case completely unjustified morally (and if it had occurred in the UK, would absolutely justify a defamation suit)
And you were right to call this inappropriate. You can't just post a picture of someone on social media and call them a rapist this way. You file a police report and go through the proper channels. I don't know what the law in the US stipulates, but this man could be within his rights to pursue legal action over something like this.
(edited 7 years ago)
You don't make a serious accusation like that over twitter and you certainly don't "out" them by posting their personal information. You report it to the police and it gets investigated properly.
There's something very wrong and very disturbing with this trend of "trial by twitter mob". The lives of totally innocent people can be ruined very easily that way.
There's something very wrong and very disturbing with this trend of "trial by twitter mob". The lives of totally innocent people can be ruined very easily that way.
A lot of people seem to treat rape allegations as given true when there's been no actual evidence yet. This has all been facilitated by social media mob justice so having an actually sensible discussion doesn't happen so much anymore. You were in the right but people are mad.
Asking for evidence to support the claim is not defending a rapist, that might not even be a rapist.
That screams ******** from the person posting that or whoever told them. If he's known to be a multiple case rapist using drugs then why has the police not been involved. Pretty sure something similar happened with a pop singer's manager early last year with this mob **** before it was proven that he did something (I've forgotten what the end result was).
Original post by Mathemagicien
THiS PEASANT BELOW IS AN ATTEMPTED RAPIST AND RAPE DRUGGER.
HE HAS ASSAULTED MULTIPLE WOMEN IN THE PAST AND WILL TRY AGAIN.
SPREAD THE WORD!
(PRSOM, btw)
HE HAS ASSAULTED MULTIPLE WOMEN IN THE PAST AND WILL TRY AGAIN.
SPREAD THE WORD!
(PRSOM, btw)
Ruddy hilarious post. PRSOM too(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by RF_PineMarten
You don't make a serious accusation like that over twitter and you certainly don't "out" them by posting their personal information. You report it to the police and it gets investigated properly.
There's something very wrong and very disturbing with this trend of "trial by twitter mob". The lives of totally innocent people can be ruined very easily that way.
There's something very wrong and very disturbing with this trend of "trial by twitter mob". The lives of totally innocent people can be ruined very easily that way.
Indeed, well said sir.
One of the women tweeting responded to my comment that he had his constitutional right to presumption of innocence, and that such things should go through the court system, with the comment that the courts had treated women accusers poorly in the past.
I asked her whether she was proposing that, in cases of rape, we should abolish trials and simply declare someone guilty immediately upon accusation. She didn't answer. But that does seem to be the practical implications of many statements by anti-rape campaigners that, essentially, an accuser must always be believed and that the defendant should be restricted in the kind of defence they can run
Original post by Vikingninja
That screams ******** from the person posting that or whoever told them. If he's known to be a multiple case rapist using drugs then why has the police not been involved. Pretty sure something similar happened with a pop singer's manager early last year with this mob **** before it was proven that he did something (I've forgotten what the end result was).
Absolutely. Unfortunately when I made points about his entitlement to presumption of innocence, the twitter mob turned on me and attacked me as a "rape defender"
When I tried to defend myself and appeal to the right of all to have their day in court, it only angered the mob and resulted in yet more furious denunciations of me as a "woman-hater", "misogynist" and "rape lover" (yes, a "rape lover" )Original post by _gcx
Asking for evidence to support the claim is not defending a rapist, that might not even be a rapist.
True. It seemed that many of the women who apparently knew him and tweeted their support of it were adducing stories that, while they made him sound a bit creepy, did absolutely nothing to support the allegation of rape (and of course, Twitter is in any case not the appropriate venue to judge and assess such allegations).
These women tweeted things like, "I went on a date with him and he was extremely bold / forward in saying he wanted sex" or "He was extremely open about wanting to bed particular women". It seems like they felt they had been treated in a creepy manner and that he was therefore deserving of being accused of rape because "I don't want any other woman to experience what I did" (being spoken to in a creepy manner?)
Original post by AlexanderHam
She didn't answer. But that does seem to be the practical implications of many statements by anti-rape campaigners that, essentially, an accuser must always be believed and that the defendant should be restricted in the kind of defence they can run
Don't forget that good old "conviction rate" for rape which they like to throw around despite it being very highly misleading.
Original post by AlexanderHam
Thoughts?
You were dealing with idiots.
well he's not a rapist if he hasn't been convicted.
innocent until proven guilty.
innocent until proven guilty.
he's a ****ing idiot?
Hillary defended one!
I agree - false rape accusations can and do destroy people's lives
as well as that, the justice system regarding rape is paper thin - people have been convicted merely via the claim itself, not evidence. there have been stories where women, too, end up recounting their claim and apologising, yet they do not get punished for essentially destroying that other individual.
to accuse people of being rapists merely for "being creepy" is insane as well
it's basically why I and many other people don't believe the claims of actual rape victims (potentially)
but it's not my fault - I've been conditioned to be the towns people in the story of the boy who cried wolf.
as well as that, the justice system regarding rape is paper thin - people have been convicted merely via the claim itself, not evidence. there have been stories where women, too, end up recounting their claim and apologising, yet they do not get punished for essentially destroying that other individual.
to accuse people of being rapists merely for "being creepy" is insane as well
it's basically why I and many other people don't believe the claims of actual rape victims (potentially)
but it's not my fault - I've been conditioned to be the towns people in the story of the boy who cried wolf.
(edited 7 years ago)
Has he been found guilty of rape? If not then what these people, these women, have done to this guy by publishing his photo, his name and spreading rumours about him, is a crime that should be punished and punished severely....
You want to know how people really defend rape?
by canceling laws that would see women charged with rape
or campaigning for over a hundred years for rape to be defined such that it excludes women from prosecution for the crime
or by preaching that grooming and sexual abuse by women is not rape.
Now those things are great examples of defending rapists.....this thread and this guy's story on the other hand are a great example of bullying, misandry and female privilege.
You want to know how people really defend rape?
by canceling laws that would see women charged with rape
or campaigning for over a hundred years for rape to be defined such that it excludes women from prosecution for the crime
or by preaching that grooming and sexual abuse by women is not rape.
Now those things are great examples of defending rapists.....this thread and this guy's story on the other hand are a great example of bullying, misandry and female privilege.
(edited 7 years ago)
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