"Bring on Oxbridge quotas"

Isn't the problem though that access initiatives are not working? Or at least, not so far particularly well, most especially in two areas - students from afro-caribbean backgrounds and students from schools and parts of the country that do not have a history of Oxbridge admission?

In the last Census in 2011, the country was ethnically:86% white and 3% black. In the admission statistics for Cambridge in 2016, around 3% of applicants were black which seems to be reasonable given their representation in the population as a whole. So I don't understand your point that access initiatives are not working in that respect.

Was that 3% of UK applicants, or 3% globally?

"There's no penalties from OFFA for missing targets "

Well, there is clearly provision for financial penalties:


There are two sanctions open to us if a university or college seriously and wilfully breaches its access agreement. We can:



Source: https://www.offa.org.uk/press/frequently-asked-questions/#sanctions

As mentioned a number of times in the other thread on a similar topic: Foundation Years (eg LMH) may well be a key way to help the situation.

And to the point that the 3% Black British application share at Oxbridge is in line with the 3% national demographic, I'd be interested to see if their POLAR profile was also in line. I have a sneaking suspicion it might be Q4 & Q5. Or have a higher proportion of private schools. I have no data... just a hunch.

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Isn't the problem though that access initiatives are not working? Or at least, not so far particularly well, most especially in two areas - students from afro-caribbean backgrounds and students from schools and parts of the country that do not have a history of Oxbridge admission?

- admissions processes, like it or not, persistently succeed in filtering out students from less privileged backgrounds.

The latter in particular is not just an Oxbridge phenomenon - it applies across the RG - but it is a real phenomenon and not some fantasy.

Home applicants. See my comment #61...

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I think 3% is the global, not the UK application rate.

You haven't actually provided an explanation for that though. You seem to imply that it's unfair, but don't provide evidence to show that.

Oxbridge claims to admit on the basis of academic ability and potential. Do you have any evidence that this is not the case for certain groups?

Oh OK - ignore my next post then, our posts crossed.

hehe. Other than a few tens of millions of pounds and a few acres of real estate. Perhaps Gap College might be an appropriate start for such an initiative, or River Island Hall, or maybe Next College. Presumably FCUK wouldn't be acceptable.

Home applicants. See my comment #61...

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And to be clear, it was applicants and not actual places? What was the figure for accepted black students from UK as a percentage?

Sorry, are we talking about quotas here? Quotas would inevitably mean sufficient lowering of perceived standards (they are never as objective as claimed) to meet the quota.

I really hate the term 'positive discrimination'. Discrimination is never positive IMO, and should not be legal.

IMO, Oxbridge bends over backwards to give everyone a fair admissions assessment - doing much more than universities that go purely on the UCAS form. They should not be forced to lower standards because the state education system fails some.

And to be clear, it was applicants and not actual places? What was the figure for accepted black students from UK as a percentage?

I think 3% is the global, not the UK application rate.

Accepted black applicants to Cambridge in 2016 (p8) 35 (1.6% of 18 yr old placed applicants) and Oxford 25 (1.1% of 18yr old placed applicants).

UCAS have these stats available covering the last few years (including a difference to offer rates adjusted to allow for predicted grades)
https://www.ucas.com/file/90201/download?token=uC_T4bSP Cambridge
https://www.ucas.com/file/90631/download?token=j0qJTSzb Oxford

(all UK universities https://www.ucas.com/corporate/data-and-analysis/ucas-undergraduate-releases/ucas-undergraduate-reports-sex-area-background-and-ethnic-group/2016-entry-ucas-undergraduate-reports-sex-area-background-and-ethnic-group)

Ethnicity charts are on page 10 - there's a lower than average offer rate for black applicants to Cambridge but once predicted grades are adjusted for the offer rate is as UCAS would expect....there's a whole other story about over and under predicted grades.

Accepted black applicants to Cambridge in 2016 (p8) 35 (1.6% of 18 yr old placed applicants) and Oxford 25 (1.1% of 18yr old placed applicants).

The analysis is potentially skewed by the focus on 18 yr olds (but that's because the factoring for predicted grades isn't possible for post results applicants)