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Einstein Summation convention with vectors

Just trying to become fluent with using these in questions, with the first one that I'm stuck on being:

Using Einstein Summation convention, prove that (c×(r×c))=2c2\displaystyle \nabla \cdot ( \mathbf{c} \times (\mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{c})) = 2c^2

I began with simplifying a bit and saying that r×c=s\mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{c} = \mathbf{s} so that we then have:

(c×s)=xiϵijkcjsk\displaystyle \nabla \cdot ( \mathbf{c} \times \mathbf{s}) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}\epsilon_{ijk} c_j s_k and now I THINK (because I'm not certain) I can express this as xi(ϵijkcjϵkmnrmcn)=xi(ϵijkϵkmncjrmcn)\displaystyle \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}(\epsilon_{ijk} c_j \epsilon_{kmn} r_m c_n) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}(\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{kmn} c_j r_m c_n) and now I'm not sure if there is anything here to be simplified or not, or where to move to - do I need to write out ALL these (non-zero) terms? Perhaps the epsilons go to some Kronecker delta? Though I don't see how that might be possible.

ALSO: I believe c=cc= | \mathbf{c} | here with c=(c1,c2,c3)\mathbf{c}=(c_1,c_2,c_3)
(edited 6 years ago)
RDKGames
..
Couple of things:

I assume r is supposed to equal (x1,x2,x3)(x_1, x_2, x_3) i.e. it is the spatial position.

In which case rm=xmr_m = x_m and then ddxixm=δim\dfrac{d}{dx_i} x_m = \delta_{im}.

The other thing I would do (*) is replace c×(r×c)\displaystyle \mathbf{c} \times (\mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{c}) by c2r(c.r)cc^2 {\bf r} - ({\bf c . r}) {\bf c};

(*) if you want to do this using summation convention you will basically need to use the identity ϵijkϵimn=δjmδknδjnδkm\epsilon_{ijk}\epsilon_{imn} = \delta_{jm} \delta_{kn} - \delta_{jn} \delta_{km} (which should have all been covered in lectures).
Reply 2
Original post by RDKGames
Perhaps the epsilons go to some Kronecker delta? Though I don't see how that might be possible.


ϵijkϵkmn=δimδjnδinδjm\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{kmn} = \delta_{im}\delta_{jn} - \delta_{in}\delta_{jm}

[edit: nvm, DFrank got there first]
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Zacken
ϵijkϵkmn=δimδjnδinδjm\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{kmn} = \delta_{im}\delta_{jn} - \delta_{in}\delta_{jm}

[edit: nvm, DFrank got there first]
Thanks for providing a version of the identity that matches RDK's indices...
RDKGames
...do I need to write out ALL these (non-zero) terms....
Just for info: with practice you can often do these directly from the vector notation, or if you do need to go to summation convention, it's very rare to need to write out individual terms.

For instance, I can tell by looking that .(c2r)=3c2,.(r.c)c=c2{\bf \nabla . } (c^2 {\bf r}) = 3c^2, {\bf \nabla . (r.c)c} = c^2, from which the result follows.
Reply 5
It is probably a good exercise to prove u×(v×w)=v(uw)w(uv)\mathbf{u} \times (\mathbf{v} \times \mathbf{w}) = \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{u}\cdot \mathbf{w}) - \mathbf{w}(\mathbf{u}\cdot \mathbf{v}), which is essentially what you do, in the special case u = c, v=r , w = u = c by using the identity in DFrank's post.
Original post by DFranklin
Couple of things:

I assume r is supposed to equal (x1,x2,x3)(x_1, x_2, x_3) i.e. it is the spatial position.

In which case rm=xmr_m = x_m and then ddxixm=δim\dfrac{d}{dx_i} x_m = \delta_{im}.


Ah yes, that is mentioned at the top of the worksheet that I missed out. So r=xiei\mathbf{r}=x_i \mathbf{e}_i

The other thing I would do (*) is replace c×(r×c)\displaystyle \mathbf{c} \times (\mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{c}) by c2r(c.r)cc^2 {\bf r} - ({\bf c . r}) {\bf c};


Cheers, I'll have a go using this.

(*) if you want to do this using summation convention you will basically need to use the identity ϵijkϵimn=δjmδknδjnδkm\epsilon_{ijk}\epsilon_{imn} = \delta_{jm} \delta_{kn} - \delta_{jn} \delta_{km} (which should have all been covered in lectures).


Original post by Zacken
ϵijkϵkmn=δimδjnδinδjm\epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{kmn} = \delta_{im}\delta_{jn} - \delta_{in}\delta_{jm}

[edit: nvm, DFrank got there first]


Thanks. Yes this formula was derived in the lecture notes, I just got stuck on applying it correctly as the first index did not start with ii on both, then I quickly realised that ϵijk=ϵkij\epsilon_{ijk}=\epsilon_{kij} which made the application to Kronecker delta simple.


Original post by DFranklin
Just for info: with practice you can often do these directly from the vector notation, or if you do need to go to summation convention, it's very rare to need to write out individual terms.

For instance, I can tell by looking that .(c2r)=3c2,.(r.c)c=c2{\bf \nabla . } (c^2 {\bf r}) = 3c^2, {\bf \nabla . (r.c)c} = c^2, from which the result follows.

I see. Currently I'm not a fan of this convention but I need to get used to it, and it took me a short while to see how you got those but they are relatively simple so I hope soon enough they'll just come out naturally for me.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Zacken
It is probably a good exercise to prove u×(v×w)=v(uw)w(uv)\mathbf{u} \times (\mathbf{v} \times \mathbf{w}) = \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{u}\cdot \mathbf{w}) - \mathbf{w}(\mathbf{u}\cdot \mathbf{v}), which is essentially what you do, in the special case u = c, v=r , w = u = c by using the identity in DFrank's post.
Although one feels something has gone very wrong with the planning of the course if this hasn't been explictly covered in lectures.
Original post by Zacken
It is probably a good exercise to prove u×(v×w)=v(uw)w(uv)\mathbf{u} \times (\mathbf{v} \times \mathbf{w}) = \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{u}\cdot \mathbf{w}) - \mathbf{w}(\mathbf{u}\cdot \mathbf{v}), which is essentially what you do, in the special case u = c, v=r , w = u = c by using the identity in DFrank's post.


Original post by DFranklin
Although one feels something has gone very wrong with the planning of the course if this hasn't been explictly covered in lectures.


We've covered this and proved it, just completely forgot about it while doing this question.
What about this one? @DFranklin


Prove that (r×(r×c))=2cr\displaystyle \nabla \cdot ( \mathbf{r} \times (\mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{c})) = 2 \mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r}

(r×(r×c))=xi(ϵijkrjϵkmnrmcn)=...\displaystyle \nabla \cdot ( \mathbf{r} \times (\mathbf{r} \times \mathbf{c})) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}(\epsilon_{ijk}r_j \epsilon_{kmn}r_m c_n)=...

...=xi[(δimδjnδinδjm)rjrmcn]=......\displaystyle=\frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} [(\delta_{im}\delta_{jn}-\delta_{in}\delta_{jm})r_j r_m c_n]=...

...=xi(rirjcjrjrjci)=δijrjcj=cr... \displaystyle = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (r_i r_j c_j-r_j r_j c_i)=\delta_{ij} r_j c_j = \mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r}

So I seem to have lost one of them along the way but I can't pinpoint where. I think it's the part at the end where I say (not explicitly) that xirjrjci=0\frac{\partial }{\partial x_i} r_j r_j c_i=0 but isn't this true?
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by RDKGames
So I seem to have lost one of them along the way but I can't pinpoint where. I think it's the part at the end where I say (not explicitly) that xixjxjci=0\frac{\partial }{\partial x_i} x_j x_j c_i=0 but isn't this true?
No; implicitly i and j range from 1 to 3; and xixj=1\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j = 1 when i = j.

More explictly, xixj=δij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j = \delta_{ij} (*) (as I posted upstream).

I know you're just learning, but this is an absolutely fundamental relationship - you'll be using (*) more than any other rule (other than how to use deltas at all) as you do these questions.

Edit: noticed another mistake. In the same line, it looks like you have thought that xixi=δij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_i = \delta_{ij} (somehow!). Again if you use (*) you see that it actually equals δii\delta_{ii}, which ends up being a constant.

Spoiler

(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by DFranklin
No; implicitly i and j range from 1 to 3; and xixj=1\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j = 1 when i = j.

More explictly, xixj=δij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j = \delta_{ij} (*) (as I posted upstream).

I know you're just learning, but this is an absolutely fundamental relationship - you'll be using (*) more than any other rule (other than how to use deltas at all) as you do these questions.

Edit: noticed another mistake. In the same line, it looks like you have thought that xixi=δij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_i = \delta_{ij} (somehow!). Again if you use (*) you see that it actually equals δii\delta_{ii}, which ends up being a constant.

Spoiler




Ah, got it - I was slightly misunderstanding the delta thing there.

...=xi(rirjcjrjrjci)=δiirjcjδijrjci=3crcr... \displaystyle = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (r_i r_j c_j-r_j r_j c_i)=\delta_{ii} r_j c_j - \delta_{ij}r_j c_i = 3\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r}- \mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r}

Thanks.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by RDKGames
Ah, got it - I was slightly misunderstanding the delta thing there.

...=xi(rirjcjrjrjci)=δiirjcjδijrjci=3crcr... \displaystyle = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (r_i r_j c_j-r_j r_j c_i)=\delta_{ii} r_j c_j - \delta_{ij}r_j c_i = 3\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r}- \mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r}

Thanks.
Actually, I kind of mislead you on this; what you've done still isn't right. (Note that I'm using x_i instead of r_i everywhere; to be honest I think using r_i is "essentially" wrong - that is, it's only right because r_i = x_i, and you're implicitly using this throughout, so you should just write x_i (or differentiate w.r.t. r_i, equivalently)).

It's true that xixj=δij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j = \delta_{ij}, but it is not true that xixjxj=δijxj\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j x_j = \delta_{ij} x_j

What you need to do is use the product rule (for differentiation):

xixjxj=xjxixj+xjxjxi=2xjδij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j x_j = \dfrac{\partial x_j}{\partial x_i} x_j + x_j \dfrac {\partial x_j}{\partial x_i} = 2 x_j \delta_{ij}

You need to do similarly with the xixixjcj\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_i x_j c_j expression - it's a product, and the partial derivative acts on both terms (xix_i and xjx_j).
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by DFranklin
Actually, I kind of mislead you on this; what you've done still isn't right. (Note that I'm using x_i instead of r_i everywhere; to be honest I think using r_i is "essentially" wrong - that is, it's only right because r_i = x_i, and you're implicitly using this throughout, so you should just write x_i (or differentiate w.r.t. r_i, equivalently)).

It's true that xixj=δij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j = \delta_{ij}, but it is not true that xixjxj=δijxj\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j x_j = \delta_{ij} x_j

What you need to do is use the product rule (for differentiation):

xixjxj=xjxixj+xjxjxi=2xjδij\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_j x_j = \dfrac{\partial x_j}{\partial x_i} x_j + x_j \dfrac {\partial x_j}{\partial x_i} = 2 x_j \delta_{ij}

You need to do similarly with the xixixjcj\dfrac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_i x_j c_j expression - it's a product, and the partial derivative acts on both terms (xix_i and xjx_j).


Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. It makes sense what you've said, and I've adjusted my answer. The δii=3\delta_{ii}=3 caught me out as it's hard for me to keep track of the fact that these are sums, so I was stuck here confused as I kept getting =0 from me writing xixi=1\frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} x_i = 1

...=xi(xixjcjxjxjci)=cj(3xj+δijxi)ci(2xjδij)\displaystyle ... = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (x_i x_j c_j-x_j x_j c_i)= c_j(3x_j+\delta_{ij}x_i)-c_i(2x_j \delta_{ij})

=3cjxj+δijxicj2δijxjci\displaystyle = 3c_j x_j+\delta_{ij}x_i c_j-2\delta_{ij}x_jc_i

=3cr+cr2cr\displaystyle = 3 \mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{r} + \mathbf{c}\cdot \mathbf{r} - 2 \mathbf{c}\cdot \mathbf{r}
@DFranklin


With ϕ(x1,x2,x3)\phi(x_1, x_2, x_3) and F(x1,x2,x3)\mathbf{F}(x_1, x_2, x_3) being scalar and vector fields respectively, prove that (ϕF)=(F)ϕ+ϕ(F)\displaystyle \nabla \cdot (\phi \mathbf{F}) = (\mathbf{F}\cdot \nabla) \phi + \phi (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{F}) using E.C.

So I began by saying that:

(ϕF)=xi(ϕiFi)\displaystyle \nabla \cdot (\phi \mathbf{F}) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (\phi_i F_i)

which by the product rule gives ϕixiFi+Fixiϕi\displaystyle \frac{\partial \phi_i}{\partial x_i} F_i + \frac{\partial F_i}{\partial x_i} \phi_i

I can see how the second term comes to give (F)ϕ=ϕ(F)(\nabla \cdot \mathbf{F})\phi = \phi (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{F}) but I can't quite see how the first term goes to (F)ϕ(\mathbf{F} \cdot \nabla) \phi
Original post by RDKGames
@DFranklin


With ϕ(x1,x2,x3)\phi(x_1, x_2, x_3) and F(x1,x2,x3)\mathbf{F}(x_1, x_2, x_3) being scalar and vector fields respectively, prove that (ϕF)=(F)ϕ+ϕ(F)\displaystyle \nabla \cdot (\phi \mathbf{F}) = (\mathbf{F}\cdot \nabla) \phi + \phi (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{F}) using E.C.

So I began by saying that:

(ϕF)=xi(ϕiFi)\displaystyle \nabla \cdot (\phi \mathbf{F}) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i} (\phi_i F_i)

which by the product rule gives ϕixiFi+Fixiϕi\displaystyle \frac{\partial \phi_i}{\partial x_i} F_i + \frac{\partial F_i}{\partial x_i} \phi_i

I can see how the second term comes to give (F)ϕ=ϕ(F)(\nabla \cdot \mathbf{F})\phi = \phi (\nabla \cdot \mathbf{F}) but I can't quite see how the first term goes to (F)ϕ(\mathbf{F} \cdot \nabla) \phi
I think the question you need to ask yourself is what does (F)(\mathbf{F}\cdot \nabla) actually mean? (At which point you'll realise you don't have much more to do...)
Original post by DFranklin
I think the question you need to ask yourself is what does (F)(\mathbf{F}\cdot \nabla) actually mean? (At which point you'll realise you don't have much more to do...)


Oh right, so it's just as simple as ϕixiFi=Fiϕixi=(Fixi)ϕi=(F)ϕ\displaystyle \frac{\partial \phi_i}{\partial x_i} F_i = F_i \frac{\partial \phi_i}{\partial x_i} = (F_i \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}) \phi_i=(\mathbf{F} \cdot \nabla) \phi ?
Yes, basically.

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