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please help me solve this much appreciated

hi guys could anyone help me solve the differential of xcos3x

I differentiated it to get
cos3x-3xsin3x=0

but I don't know what to do next. any help would be much appreciated.
thank you :smile:
so are you trying to find stationary points ?

:holmes:
Reply 2
Original post by the bear
so are you trying to find stationary points ?

:holmes:

yes, I am. so I can plot the graph and I need to solve it to get the turning points. do you know where I should go from here 😄
Original post by maruchan
yes, I am. so I can plot the graph and I need to solve it to get the turning points. do you know where I should go from here 😄


That's gonna be a lot of turning points... and obviously the derivative being zero constitutes a transcendental equation; you cant solve it for x.

I suggest you you first realise how cos3x\cos 3x looks like, then slapping xx in front of it is the same as making those waves come out tiny from the origin and grow infinitely big.
you can figure out the graph without actually finding the turning points ?

draw y = x and y = -x

now draw cos3x, but stretch it up and down so the max and mins touch the lines y = x and y = -x
Reply 5
Original post by RDKGames
That's gonna be a lot of turning points... and obviously the derivative being zero constitutes a transcendental equation; you cant solve it for x.

I suggest you you first realise how cos3x\cos 3x looks like, then slapping xx in front of it is the same as making those waves come out tiny from the origin and grow infinitely big.


ah right so there is no way I can solve that equation?

I was interested to see whether I could or not. as trying to figure it out sounds like a good idea too. thank you :smile:
Reply 6
Original post by the bear
you can figure out the graph without actually finding the turning points ?

draw y = x and y = -x

now draw cos3x, but stretch it up and down so the max and mins touch the lines y = x and y = -x


that's a great way thank you v much!
is there a way I can solve it though as I was intrigued to see whether I could or not. I tried using the double angle formula but it got complicated.. haha
Original post by maruchan
ah right so there is no way I can solve that equation?

Nope.

Transcendental equations can't be solved by your usual analytical tricks, best you can do is approximate the solution via numerical methods -- clearly a bad idea for this question anyway.

Another example of a transcendental equation is the simple exx=0e^x - x = 0.
Reply 8
Original post by RDKGames
Nope.

Transcendental equations can't be solved by your usual analytical tricks, best you can do is approximate the solution via numerical methods -- clearly a bad idea for this question anyway.

Another example of a transcendental equation is the simple exx=0e^x - x = 0.


thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. I assumed it could be solved as it was given to me in a differentiation exercise so I assumed it must be linked? but now I know haha
Original post by maruchan
thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. I assumed it could be solved as it was given to me in a differentiation exercise so I assumed it must be linked? but now I know haha


Well it's probably testing just that; your differentiation skills.

The furthest this type of question would go is asking you to show that stationary points are solutions of cot(3x)=3x\cot (3x) = 3x. You would not be expected to solve the impossible!
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 10
Original post by RDKGames
Well it's probably testing just that; your differentiation skills.

The furthest this type of question would go is asking you to show that stationary points are solutions of cotx=3x\cot x = 3x. You would not be expected to solve the impossible!

so when you mean to show the stationary points how would I get to that bit😂 sorry for all the questions I think I overcomplicated everything
Original post by maruchan
so when you mean to show the stationary points how would I get to that bit😂 sorry for all the questions I think I overcomplicated everything


For cot(3x)=3x\cot (3x) = 3x you just need to look at cos3x3xsin3x=0\cos 3x - 3x\sin 3x = 0 and see if you can manipulate it a bit into the required form. Nothing complicated here, and I doubt this type of question ever even comes up.
Reply 12
Original post by RDKGames
For cot(3x)=3x\cot (3x) = 3x you just need to look at cos3x3xsin3x=0\cos 3x - 3x\sin 3x = 0 and see if you can manipulate it a bit into the required form. Nothing complicated here, and I doubt this type of question ever even comes up.


ah right thank you very much doubt I could solve that though even if I take the inverse cot or use a double angle formula
Original post by maruchan
ah right thank you very much doubt I could solve that though even if I take the inverse cot or use a double angle formula


Yes but ive been saying this for the last few posts now... you cant solve that! And the question I proposed isnt even asking you to, its just asking you to obtain that form thats all.
Reply 14
Original post by RDKGames
Yes but ive been saying this for the last few posts now... you cant solve that! And the question I proposed isnt even asking you to, its just asking you to obtain that form thats all.


I know sorry for asking multiple times can I solve it . I always do that with questions hoping that maybe it can be solved😂

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