There is no evidence for God

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    (Original post by inhuman)
    I personally have an extreme dislike for agnostics. They are lying to themselves. Why should the God delusion be any special? They aren't agnostic about the existence of a tea pot holding up the Earth are they? Or about dragons and fairies existing? So why God?
    The comparison between the existence of a formless entity whose existence may/may not explain the contingent state of the entire universe itself, and the existence of creatures and objects whose earthly origins can be traced in literature and elsewhere, is inherently fallacious.

    God is often posited as an explanatory hypothesis for some known fact(s) about the world; in some cases, the fact may be the existence of the universe itself while the entities you mentioned are hardly analogous. In order for your tooth fairy analogy to work for example, we would have to modify reality in one way: teeth would have to magically go missing from under pillows in a manner that science cannot even begin to explain.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    The comparison between the existence of a formless entity whose existence may/may not explain the contingent state of the entire universe itself, and the existence of creatures and objects whose earthly origins can be traced in literature and elsewhere, is inherently fallacious.

    God is often posited as an explanatory hypothesis for some known fact(s) about the world; in some cases, the fact may be the existence of the universe itself while the entities you mentioned are hardly analogous. In order for your tooth fairy analogy to work for example, we would have to modify reality in one way: teeth would have to magically go missing from under pillows in a manner that science cannot even begin to explain.
    The earthly origins of God can be traced in literature, too. And forget "creatures" then. How about we all live in a computer simulation?

    And anyway, I myself do not discount that there is an entity out there that created the universe. I find it unlikely, but yes, I would not wholly discount it.

    But what I do discount, and anyone capable of rational thought should discount, is a so-called God, that is benevolent, among other things, and displays all of the characteristics as described in holy texts.

    What you are talking about, that entity, that is far removed from the God we are talking about here.
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    (Original post by davidoriakhi)
    well then why wait?
    if you dont believe in him then you develop the technologies and alleviate the causes of war.
    get your PhD in biological sciences and find the cure for all the diseases we have in our world today, and the ones yet to come!
    its a shame that you wont be able to do any of those things...

    like i've said earlier, you dont have to believe in God, its your choice,
    God won't force you to believe in him, he will let you live your life EXACTLY the way you want it.
    But its definitely worth pulling someone out from a fire as they walk RIGHT INTO IT.
    God bless you.
    You know very little of me personally, so keep your diatribe to yourself. I never expressed or implied or suggested or otherwise gave an inkling that I personally wanted to cure disease, that's life-sciences which I have little interest in pursuing. I do think that being too religious prevents you from doing those things though, it makes the mind all messed up.

    If there's no God to believe in, what fire is there to walk into? There is not a single thing in the Universe that necessitates supernatural explanations, especially theistic ones. Keep your unfounded, anti-reason convictions behind closed doors and no one would need to criticise you.
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    On agnosticism, I view it as simply answering a different question. The agnosticism question is about "do you know if God exists?" whereas the atheism question is about "do you believe if God exists?" If not convinced, you're an atheist by default because you're quite simply not theist. If you have theistic leanings, then you're more or less a theist that aren't confident enough to say so.

    Atheism is not about rejecting God as that implies there is a God to reject, but rather disbelief based on lack of compelling reasoning and/or evidence - ie being an adequately critical person.

    To answer "agnostic" when people ask about whether you believe in God is like answering blue to "what's your favourite food". I tend to find that the ones that do it tend to be closeted atheists who don't like to admit their atheism or associate with more militant atheists like Dawkins
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    (Original post by Rather_Cynical)
    You know very little of me personally, so keep your diatribe to yourself. I never expressed or implied or suggested or otherwise gave an inkling that I personally wanted to cure disease, that's life-sciences which I have little interest in pursuing. I do think that being too religious prevents you from doing those things though, it makes the mind all messed up.

    If there's no God to believe in, what fire is there to walk into? There is not a single thing in the Universe that necessitates supernatural explanations, especially theistic ones. Keep your unfounded, anti-reason convictions behind closed doors and no one would need to criticise you.
    Look man I come to you with a gentle heart, I'm not trying to criticise you so it does not need to happen vice versa. It is my duty as a Christian to share with you the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and also my duty to defend my belief in a way that does not harm or frustrate anyone in anyway.
    So NO I WON'T KEEP ANYTHING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, because everyone needs to hear about the truth of God's existence, and the eternal life you can have with Him.

    1 Peter 3:15;
    "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

    If you choose to believe there is no God then good and fine. You can live the life you want to live without anyone disturbing you about this "stuff".
    I have chosen to live my life as a believer, and I truly enjoy it. There is nothing any atheist will tell me that will make me think twice about the decision I made with Christ. Obviously there will be trials and tribulations, but that's what makes my faith stronger in the Lord.
    Religion has nothing to do with Christianity, they are on two extremes in the spectrum. Although society might label Christianity as a religion, it is not and you can ask any devout Christian about that.

    1 Corinthians 3:19-20 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, since it is written: He catches the wise in their craftiness; and again, The Lord knows that the reasoning's of the wise are meaningless.

    Romans 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
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    (Original post by davidoriakhi)
    Look man I come to you with a gentle heart, I'm not trying to criticise you so it does not need to happen vice versa. It is my duty as a Christian to share with you the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and also my duty to defend my belief in a way that does not harm or frustrate anyone in anyway.
    So NO I WON'T KEEP ANYTHING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, because everyone needs to hear about the truth of God's existence, and the eternal life you can have with Him.
    The problem is, you sound crazy. It is my duty as a rational, logical human being to share that insight with you.
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    (Original post by davidoriakhi)
    It is my duty as a Christian to share with you the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and also my duty to defend my belief
    A belief is defended by providing supporting evidence. e.g. if I believe that the government is poisoning the population through a chemtrails conspiracy, I should provide evidence that this is the case instead of stubbornly insisting that this is the case without a shred of proof.
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    Rather than post an intentionally provocative thread title, why not just let everyone live their separate lives how they want to?
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    The problem is, you sound crazy. It is my duty as a rational, logical human being to share that insight with you.

    Its illogical not to believe in God.
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Its illogical not to believe in God.
    It is illogical to provide a supernatural explanation for something without any evidence. Baseless beliefs are not worth anything.

    Also, scientific theories are improved upon when new evidence is discovered, or are cast aside if proven to be false or if a better theory comes along. This is a strength.
    Religious theories do not change to fit the evidence, and anything in the religious texts that is completely wrong is conveniently ignored or excused away. This is a weakness.
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Its illogical not to believe in God.
    Amen brother. May your soul forever rest in peace.
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Its illogical not to believe in God.
    [Reasoning needed]
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    A lot of religions are about having a sense of purpose in life (eg helping others or achieving enlightenment). Believing in an afterlife and/or reincarnation (also a part of a lot of religions) also makes the concept of death less unknowable and therefore less scary. There is also the fact that religions provide a source of hope and community for people who might need those things.

    Also, the whole idea of "faith" is that you don't need evidence.

    Religions help people, stop trying to tear them apart.
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    (Original post by BB8)
    A lot of religions are about having a sense of purpose in life (eg helping others or achieving enlightenment). Believing in an afterlife and/or reincarnation (also a part of a lot of religions) also makes the concept of death less unknowable and therefore less scary. There is also the fact that religions provide a source of hope and community for people who might need those things.

    Also, the whole idea of "faith" is that you don't need evidence.

    Religions help people, stop trying to tear them apart.
    In society, one's actions affect others. If someone practiced their faith in a vacuum (ie behind closed doors), then there'd be little issue. That shouldn't be what happens in theory given the prescribed verses the insane person replying to me memorised by rote, and neither in practice.

    I think we - academics and atheists - get tired of being marginalised, of the inhumanity of barbaric practices in the Middle East, of the insanity of rejecting birth control, of the opposition to science and education, of the involvement in national politics, and of the terror ravaging throughout the Western world.

    If religion was used appropriately to inspire, to teach love and acceptance, etc that Abrahamic religions profess, then we'd have less of a problem with it. Is there many on this thread that seem to have a problem with Buddhism, or Hinduism? It's not, most of its practices are fundametally regressive and anti-reason.

    Faith in itself should never be seen as a good or noble thing, it's time to stop pretending it is.
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    (Original post by BB8)
    A lot of religions are about having a sense of purpose in life (eg helping others or achieving enlightenment).
    You don't need to be religious to help others or to become more enlightened.

    (Original post by BB8)
    Also, the whole idea of "faith" is that you don't need evidence.
    And why is religion any more valid than any other baseless claim that doesn't have any evidence behind it? I can't sit here and claim that michael jackson is on mars and then attempt to hide behind faith when questioned about it.

    (Original post by BB8)
    Religions help people, stop trying to tear them apart.
    1) It hinders scientific progress. e.g. US Congressman Paul Broun (R-Georgia) has dismissed evolution, the Big Bang theory and embryology as "lies straight from the pit of hell." He is a high-ranking member of the House Science Committee, deciding how tax dollars are spent on science programs.
    Also it's very difficult for stem cell research to get funding because religious fundamentalists oppose it.
    They also attempt to restrict access to birth control for religious reasons.

    2) Religious groups have fought extremely hard to try and deny various people rights e.g. gay people.

    3) People are slaughtering each other every day because others don't believe in the "right" god.
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    (Original post by Rather_Cynical)
    In society, one's actions affect others. If someone practiced their faith in a vacuum (ie behind closed doors), then there'd be little issue. That shouldn't be what happens in theory given the prescribed verses the insane person replying to me memorised by rote, and neither in practice.

    I think we - academics and atheists - get tired of being marginalised, of the inhumanity of barbaric practices in the Middle East, of the insanity of rejecting birth control, of the opposition to science and education, of the involvement in national politics, and of the terror ravaging throughout the Western world.

    If religion was used appropriately to inspire, to teach love and acceptance, etc that Abrahamic religions profess, then we'd have less of a problem with it. Is there many on this thread that seem to have a problem with Buddhism, or Hinduism? It's not, most of its practices are fundametally regressive and anti-reason.

    Faith in itself should never be seen as a good or noble thing, it's time to stop pretending it is.
    Religious extremists are another matter. Many do not in fact practice what their religion teaches - e.g the Quran states that you should not attempt to spread Islam by force.

    The vast majority of religious people are practicing peacefully. The few who aren't would find another excuse for their actions.

    I also definitely do not believe I am marginalised for being atheist.


    (Original post by Fred5134)
    You don't need to be religious to help others or to become more enlightened.



    And why is religion any more valid than any other baseless claim that doesn't have any evidence behind it? I can't sit here and claim that michael jackson is on mars and then attempt to hide behind faith when questioned about it.



    1) It hinders scientific progress. e.g. US Congressman Paul Broun (R-Georgia) has dismissed evolution, the Big Bang theory and embryology as "lies straight from the pit of hell." He is a high-ranking member of the House Science Committee, deciding how tax dollars are spent on science programs.
    Also it's very difficult for stem cell research to get funding because religious fundamentalists oppose it.
    They also attempt to restrict access to birth control for religious reasons.

    2) Religious groups have fought extremely hard to try and deny various people rights e.g. gay people.

    3) People are slaughtering each other every day because others don't believe in the "right" god.
    I'm an atheist. I'm well aware that I'm perfectly capable of being a good person despite my lack of religion.

    If there was a community of people who believed that, I wouldn't have a problem.

    1. Birth control and scientific advancement are important, yes. I never said religion was perfect, and it should definitely be criticised for that. Just not in a way that targets peaceful believers.

    However, on the same note, there are non-religious reasons for opposing stem cell research (eg the potential for life of an embryo) and not all who oppose are religious. Plus, it's a debate. You have an opinion - is it so hard to believe other people do to? Is it so hard to fathom that they might not agree with you?

    2. I am part of the lgbt+ community and I'm well aware that people have used religion as a reason to hate. But I also know plenty of supportive and lgbt+ religious people, and hateful atheists. People will always find a reason.

    3. And people slaughter each other for a lot of reasons. Religion isn't to blame, humanity is.
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    (Original post by BB8)
    Religious extremists are another matter. Many do not in fact practice what their religion teaches - e.g the Quran states that you should not attempt to spread Islam by force.

    The vast majority of religious people are practicing peacefully. The few who aren't would find another excuse for their actions.

    I also definitely do not believe I am marginalised for being atheist.




    I'm an atheist. I'm well aware that I'm perfectly capable of being a good person despite my lack of religion.

    If there was a community of people who believed that, I wouldn't have a problem.

    1. Birth control and scientific advancement are important, yes. I never said religion was perfect, and it should definitely be criticised for that. Just not in a way that targets peaceful believers.

    However, on the same note, there are non-religious reasons for opposing stem cell research (eg the potential for life of an embryo) and not all who oppose are religious. Plus, it's a debate. You have an opinion - is it so hard to believe other people do to? Is it so hard to fathom that they might not agree with you?

    2. I am part of the lgbt+ community and I'm well aware that people have used religion as a reason to hate. But I also know plenty of supportive and lgbt+ religious people, and hateful atheists. People will always find a reason.

    3. And people slaughter each other for a lot of reasons. Religion isn't to blame, humanity is.
    You talk a lot of sense.

    But what you fail to see is motivation. Religion is a very good motivator and a very good excuse. That is the problem.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    You talk a lot of sense.

    But what you fail to see is motivation. Religion is a very good motivator and a very good excuse. That is the problem.
    That is true, yes. But I still don't believe the entirety of religion should be opposed - just certain parts of it, those that are causing problems - because for the vast majority of religious people, my original post stands true. The purpose of this thread was not to critique those parts, but rather attack religion as a whole.

    If we're having a discussion, we need to be having the right one.
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    (Original post by BB8)
    That is true, yes. But I still don't believe the entirety of religion should be opposed - just certain parts of it, those that are causing problems - because for the vast majority of religious people, my original post stands true. The purpose of this thread was not to critique those parts, but rather attack religion as a whole.

    If we're having a discussion, we need to be having the right one.
    Christianity.

    Why did the Protestants split? While they are still not "perfect" let's say, they are miles better than the Catholics. They reformed.

    Why can't Islam reform? Why can't people openly say, hey look there are obviously some things that cause a lot of misinterpretation, there are some things that were true in the past, let's bring Islam into modernity. No. Every time an attack happens Muslims are #NotOneOfUs. All words, but no actions behind them.
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    (Original post by inhuman)
    Christianity.

    Why did the Protestants split? While they are still not "perfect" let's say, they are miles better than the Catholics. They reformed.

    Why can't Islam reform? Why can't people openly say, hey look there are obviously some things that cause a lot of misinterpretation, there are some things that were true in the past, let's bring Islam into modernity. No. Every time an attack happens Muslims are #NotOneOfUs. All words, but no actions behind them.
    I just want to point out that the reformation happened for vital theological reasons. You may want to do some more reading on the theology behind the split. It wasn't just because of divorce, which is what British schools tend to focus on in history lessons. The reformation wasn't just about improving the Catholic Church. There were and still are fundamental theological problems with what it teaches. It's a matter of authority - who do we go to for truth about God and why?

    Look up concepts like sola scriptura, sola fide, these are so vital to the topic.

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