England Vs The Rest of Great Britain Watch

gm15
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#21
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#21
(Original post by tucker672)
Don't make welsh compulsory, MAKE A LANGUAGE COMPULSARY like spanish.
But the problem isnot everyone is good at languages like they see you either have it or you don't, and I don't so I am being disadvantaged.
Exactly - its language skills that are important.
Also its far easier for english speakers to learn thing slike spanish, french, italian and german as they are latin based.
(Though don't forget that the english are just as celtic as the welsh etc. Oh and the celts originate form main land europe - germany area I think)
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mipmapped
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#22
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#22
The point in bold is hardly true. The paragraph below that similarly is not entirely correct either. The bilingual road signs are such that they take the dominant language of the region as the more prominent of the elements, thus in our part of Wales they have English first and in the North they are reversed.
I am increasingly finding (go to your Tesco at Upper-Boat, look at what the sign above the door says) that signage is in Welsh with smaller translation for the unwashed (let's face it, in SE Wales, there's a definite class division in Welsh speaking).

Devolution has just been a gravy train in Wales.

Don't get me started on Welsh language schools. Just don't.
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oriel historian
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#23
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#23
(Original post by gm15)
And welsh isn't? No offence but native english speakers,whether english or welsh, find it hard. Also while I agree welsh is mor ecommon in the north than the south I have to point out that people like my ex-french teacher who spoke welsh first are very very very rare. Also English is closer to other labhuages than welsh, nobody really learns it outside of wales.

Oh and surely its far more important to learn a Latin based language like french or spanish (2 dominant language in the world) or an asiatic, or middle eastern language.
Well it may be true that Welsh is a minority language but it has been latinised. Ironically my french teacher was also first-language welsh but that's neither here nor there. I don't see what the problem is making a language compulsory in Wales when in England languages cease to be compulsory at the age of 14. Studies prove that children who learn more than one language at an early age are more intellectually flexible than those who do not. In that regard Wales is more like our European counterparts than England is.
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mipmapped
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#24
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#24
Also its far easier for english speakers to learn thing slike spanish, french, italian and german as they are latin based.
buh?
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tucker672
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#25
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#25
(Original post by mipmapped)
I am increasingly finding (go to your Tesco at Upper-Boat, look at what the sign above the door says) that signage is in Welsh with smaller translation for the unwashed (let's face it, in SE Wales, there's a definite class division in Welsh speaking).

Devolution has just been a gravy train in Wales.

Don't get me started on Welsh language schools. Just don't.
lol welsh schools dont bother me it is based on CHOICE. something we dont have when it comes to choosing our GCSE's
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tucker672
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#26
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#26
(Original post by oriel historian)
Well it may be true that Welsh is a minority language but it has been latinised. Ironically my french teacher was also first-language welsh but that's neither here nor there. I don't see what the problem is making a language compulsory in Wales when in England languages cease to be compulsory at the age of 14. Studies prove that children who learn more than one language at an early age are more intellectually flexible than those who do not. In that regard Wales is more like our European counterparts than England is.
Yes but make Spanish compulsory then - the 2nd most spoken language in the world. Not welsh, how useful is that outside Wales oh and dont forget Patagonia.:p:
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oriel historian
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#27
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#27
(Original post by tucker672)
Yes but make Spanish compulsory then - the 2nd most spoken language in the world. Not welsh, how useful is that outside Wales oh and dont forget Patagonia.:p:
and you'll get those spanish teachers from where exactly?
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tucker672
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#28
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#28
(Original post by oriel historian)
and you'll get those spanish teachers from where exactly?
I have 5 spanish teachers in my school alone so there already there :P: thats like saying ten years ago where do you suppose we get these welsh teachers from lol :P:
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oriel historian
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#29
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#29
(Original post by tucker672)
I have 5 spanish teachers in my school alone so there already there :P: thats like saying ten years ago where do you suppose we get these welsh teachers from lol :P:
My school had none. You also have to appreciate that Welsh teachers have been there for decades because education in Wales was once considered a highly respectable profession and people took it really quite seriously especially as far as the language went. Don't get me wrong, my parents are both English and I come from a monoglot Anglophone household I just don't see what the fuss is all about, it's the native language of this country and there is something of a duty for everyone to have some familiarity with it. Not everyone has to be fluent by any means but for it to cease to be a class issue then there has to be some parity. Lets face it GCSEs are about the easiest exams you'll ever sit in your life that mean anything and since you do shortcourse anyway it's not much more than knowing what Iechyd Da means or how to say Llanfair PG properly. I did go through the self-same system remember!
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tucker672
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#30
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(Original post by oriel historian)
My school had none. You also have to appreciate that Welsh teachers have been there for decades because education in Wales was once considered a highly respectable profession and people took it really quite seriously especially as far as the language went. Don't get me wrong, my parents are both English and I come from a monoglot Anglophone household I just don't see what the fuss is all about, it's the native language of this country and there is something of a duty for everyone to have some familiarity with it. Not everyone has to be fluent by any means but for it to cease to be a class issue then there has to be some parity. Lets face it GCSEs are about the easiest exams you'll ever sit in your life that mean anything and since you do shortcourse anyway it's not much more than knowing what Iechyd Da means or how to say Llanfair PG properly. I did go through the self-same system remember!
I did full course

The thing that really gets me though and its the same with the IB is that some pople just arent good at languages, I genuinely think its a nature thing more than a nuture thing. I am preidcted all A*'s and A's and a C in Welsh cause I am forced to take it :mad:
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oriel historian
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#31
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#31
(Original post by tucker672)
I did full course

The thing that really gets me though and its the same with the IB is that some pople just arent good at languages, I genuinely think its a nature thing more than a nuture thing. I am preidcted all A*'s and A's and a C in Welsh cause I am forced to take it :mad:
That's the thing, everyone's good at languages or else you wouldn't be able to learn your native one. Perhaps instead of complaining about Welsh here think about you could learn it in such a way as it makes sense to you. For example, if learning from a book doesn't work try watching television and listening to radio cymru. You mightn't understand it all but you'll know enough vocab to pick things out. Pobol Y Cwm is a good programme for that or the kids programmes for example. Then as your awareness grows you'll feel more settled and you'll have learnt more than ever you would learning from a book. Anything works, be it music or literature you just have to find what works for you. When I was learning French I used to listen to French radio and over time I got reall quite good at it. Similarly with German. There's any number of fantastic resources devoted to Welsh language learning that it doesn't have to be just what you learn in the classroom that determines what you think of something!
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tucker672
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#32
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#32
(Original post by oriel historian)
That's the thing, everyone's good at languages or else you wouldn't be able to learn your native one. Perhaps instead of complaining about Welsh here think about you could learn it in such a way as it makes sense to you. For example, if learning from a book doesn't work try watching television and listening to radio cymru. You mightn't understand it all but you'll know enough vocab to pick things out. Pobol Y Cwm is a good programme for that or the kids programmes for example. Then as your awareness grows you'll feel more settled and you'll have learnt more than ever you would learning from a book. Anything works, be it music or literature you just have to find what works for you. When I was learning French I used to listen to French radio and over time I got reall quite good at it. Similarly with German. There's any number of fantastic resources devoted to Welsh language learning that it doesn't have to be just what you learn in the classroom that determines what you think of something!
I have an idea teach a language from nursery and recption and year 2. Not from year 7 like me :mad:
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1721
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#33
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the thing with welsh is theres no point, if you spoke fluent welsh to someone in wales they'd look at you like you belonged in a looney bin.
i know some people in the valleys who speak fluent welsh but they also speak fluet english so welsh is effectively useless as the whole point in languages is that you can comunicate with people that otherwise you cant.

some french people or french africa or canada might not speak english so french would come in handy but i cant think of a similar situation for welsh.
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oriel historian
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#34
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#34
(Original post by tucker672)
I have an idea teach a language from nursery and recption and year 2. Not from year 7 like me :mad:
They do! It's just informally done so children don't get overwhelmed. I had lessons in Welsh at my primary school so I doubt that you were devoid of them, you just probably didn't realise at the time!
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tucker672
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#35
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#35
(Original post by oriel historian)
They do! It's just informally done so children don't get overwhelmed. I had lessons in Welsh at my primary school so I doubt that you were devoid of them, you just probably didn't realise at the time!
lol I am not lying I dint have anything till year 7
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oriel historian
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#36
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#36
(Original post by 1721)
the thing with welsh is theres no point, if you spoke fluent welsh to someone in wales they'd look at you like you belonged in a looney bin.
i know some people in the valleys who speak fluent welsh but they also speak fluet english so welsh is effectively useless as the whole point in languages is that you can comunicate with people that otherwise you cant.

some french people or french africa or canada might not speak english so french would come in handy but i cant think of a similar situation for welsh.
That's not at all true. Language is not just about communication with people from the present. I mean, all those people who study classics at university and learn to be fluent in Latin and Greek. What's the point of that? So they can converse with the Pope all day? No, it's about communicating with the past as well. I mean, English has not always been the lingua franca of global communications. I think there is a lack of respect for languages generally in Britain and the attitude to Celtic languages reflects a total lack of regard for alternative cultures. I'm the last person you should be telling to learn more useful languages, I think knowing French, German, Italian, and Spanish is useful enough, don't you? But refusing point blank to acknowledge the independent histories of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales by ignoring the languages spoken there prior to English becoming dominant? No, that's wrong.
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oriel historian
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#37
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#37
(Original post by tucker672)
lol I am not lying I dint have anything till year 7
Alright may be that's the case. I dunno.
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1721
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#38
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#38
(Original post by oriel historian)
That's not at all true. Language is not just about communication with people from the present. I mean, all those people who study classics at university and learn to be fluent in Latin and Greek. What's the point of that? So they can converse with the Pope all day? No, it's about communicating with the past as well. I mean, English has not always been the lingua franca of global communications. I think there is a lack of respect for languages generally in Britain and the attitude to Celtic languages reflects a total lack of regard for alternative cultures. I'm the last person you should be telling to learn more useful languages, I think knowing French, German, Italian, and Spanish is useful enough, don't you? But refusing point blank to acknowledge the independent histories of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales by ignoring the languages spoken there prior to English becoming dominant? No, that's wrong.
well thats fine for people who want to do it, aka uni, no one is forcing 11 year olds to learn latin or greek are they?
when on a day to day basis are you going to use welsh? never
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itsliam
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Phil.Murray)
England would devolve from the UK (Westminster) Parliament. The Parliament sitting in London is no more for England than it is for Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland. England is not the primary country in the UK.
? Yes, because we need another lot of politicians like a hole in the head! I don't think we need an English Assembly/Parliament. Effectively we would be paying the Westminster lot the same amount of money to do far less work, whilst creating a separate bunch of freeloaders who can vote themselves big pay rises year after year. Much better Ken Clarke's idea to prevent Westminster MPs from constituencies governed by the devolved assemblies from voting in England-only matters. With departments such as the MOD and Home Office still deciding policy for the UK as a whole so the total number of politicians would remain the same as now,

I'd also advocate the House of Lords ought to be replaced with a PR chamber, keeping the Commons as FTFP. This ensures that every area of the UK keeps an MP who is their local representative whilst ensuring that every single vote cast in an election counts for something. It also means that the legislation review process still requires consensus agreement to pass.
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oriel historian
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#40
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#40
(Original post by 1721)
well thats fine for people who want to do it, aka uni, no one is forcing 11 year olds to learn latin or greek are they?
when on a day to day basis are you going to use welsh? never
I use it all the time. It's also come in quite useful for a multitude of other things. Have you ever read Lord of the Rings btw?
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