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Falklands watch

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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    :facepalm2:
    I guess that was aimed at me? :cool:
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    Send in Her Majesty's Armed Services of course, what else? I wouldn't let any British citizens be annexed by a foreign power.

    In fact I'd find the Belgrano, refloat it, then sink it again just to prove a point.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Interesting, do you know who he served with?

    The Islanders were very grateful, however the cost was dear.
    He was a Royal Marine - 40 Commando.

    More men died than they expected, that's true. There was also a ridiculously high suicide rate post-war from both sides, but my dad himself has no regrets and would do it all over again.
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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    I guess that was aimed at me? :cool:

    It's just that you vastly underestimate the logistical scale of sending a single destroyer to the South Atlantic, let alone a carrier, two attack submarines and tens of thousands of men and women. (Not that that would be anywhere near a large or powerfull enough force to capture an island over 8000 miles away)

    Not to mention the fact that our carriers are old as ****, regularly break down. I am assuming you are reffering to the Type 45 destroyers, and not the 42's, because i can assure you that the 42's would not last a minute in modern combat, their missile system was designed in the 60's and is all but useless against modern weaponry and countermeasures, they would be nothing but a shield to take what was fired at the carrier. Infact that is now their sole purpose when sailing as part of a taskforce and they carry a piece of equipment which enlarges their radar signiture to that of a capital ship.

    It's just nowhere near as black and white as command and conquer. :redface:

    (However i think the possibility of Argentina trying to retake the Falklands is remote, they seem quite dedicated to peacekeeping and the UN now. Apart from the odd reference by some populist nobody, which is quickly forgotten)
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    The Argentine public feel strongly about the Falklands - they want them back. Thankfully they're distracted by other issues at the moment, however reclaiming the islands would be a show of strength and unite the people of Argentina.

    The threat is very real, that's why we still have a permanent military presence on the island. The UK Govt. would have to protect them, the public would be behind sending in the troops.
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    (Original post by dzeh)
    What a nonsense comment

    At the moment we got one of the most advanced tanks (challenger 2) in the world (joint with the abrams)

    The most advanced nuclear submarine in the world (astute class/ trident)

    One of the most advanced fighter jets (euro typhoon jet)

    And two massive new aircraft carriers on the way..

    So apparently we are a shadow of what we were 30 years ago?
    1) Leopard 2(German), Leclerc(France), T-90(Russia), Merkava(Israel) are all as good if not better than the Challenger 2.

    2) The Russian Borei class will be better than the Astute class by a country mile.

    3) Russia and the US both have 5th generation fighters.

    4) China, Russia and the US will all have aircraft carriers better than the two Queen Elizabeth class carriers.

    As for Howard's comment, it wasn't nonsense. The fact of the matter is that the UK has been punching above its weight for too long now and is finally coming to grips with itself. The UK has been in decline since the end of WWII and has yet to stop. With the bulk of the military in Afghanistan, every sector receiving cuts, I doubt the UK would be able to wage another war.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Except that it was outside our ZOE.
    Exclusion zones have bugger all relevance to belligerent naval vessels. They apply to neutral ships and shipping craft, and only neutral ships and shipping craft.

    Even the Argentine government have themselves declared the attack legitimate.
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    1) Leopard 2(German), Leclerc(France), T-90(Russia), Merkava(Israel) are all as good if not better than the Challenger 2.

    2) The Russian Borei class will be better than the Astute class by a country mile.

    3) Russia and the US both have 5th generation fighters.

    4) China, Russia and the US will all have aircraft carriers better than the two Queen Elizabeth class carriers.

    As for Howard's comment, it wasn't nonsense. The fact of the matter is that the UK has been punching above its weight for too long now and is finally coming to grips with itself. The UK has been in decline since the end of WWII and has yet to stop. With the bulk of the military in Afghanistan, every sector receiving cuts, I doubt the UK would be able to wage another war.
    Pointless list, do you have any proof to support your outlandish claims?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    It's just that you vastly underestimate the logistical scale of sending a single destroyer to the South Atlantic, let alone a carrier, two attack submarines and tens of thousands of men and women. (Not that that would be anywhere near a large or powerfull enough force to capture an island over 8000 miles away)

    Not to mention the fact that our carriers are old as ****, regularly break down. I am assuming you are reffering to the Type 45 destroyers, and not the 42's, because i can assure you that the 42's would not last a minute in modern combat, their missile system was designed in the 60's and is all but useless against modern weaponry and countermeasures, they would be nothing but a shield to take what was fired at the carrier. Infact that is now their sole purpose when sailing as part of a taskforce and they carry a piece of equipment which enlarges their radar signiture to that of a capital ship.

    It's just nowhere near as black and white as command and conquer. :redface:

    (However i think the possibility of Argentina trying to retake the Falklands is remote, they seem quite dedicated to peacekeeping and the UN now. Apart from the odd reference by some populist nobody, which is quickly forgotten)

    It would not take an island 8,000 miles away?

    2 destroyers
    2 frigates
    1 LSL landing ship
    1 LCU amphibious craft
    1 container ship

    Managed last time and IMO, sending a carrier and sub's would make it a more powerful force than that. Plus the destroyers already stationed there wouldn't go down without a fight.

    Ofcourse I mean 45's, many of the 42's are/have been scrapped.

    I know it is not as simple as that and would take weeks/months to prepare however 60,000 logistical and admin staff are paid for just that reason.
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    1) Leopard 2(German), Leclerc(France), T-90(Russia), Merkava(Israel) are all as good if not better than the Challenger 2.

    2) The Russian Borei class will be better than the Astute class by a country mile.

    3) Russia and the US both have 5th generation fighters.

    4) China, Russia and the US will all have aircraft carriers better than the two Queen Elizabeth class carriers.

    As for Howard's comment, it wasn't nonsense. The fact of the matter is that the UK has been punching above its weight for too long now and is finally coming to grips with itself. The UK has been in decline since the end of WWII and has yet to stop. With the bulk of the military in Afghanistan, every sector receiving cuts, I doubt the UK would be able to wage another war.
    Ah yes we have equipment equal to that of the three current superpowers and occasionally slightly below.

    Russia is still developing its fighters.

    How shocking for an island.
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    (Original post by dzeh)
    Pointless list, do you have any proof to support your claims?
    Submarines: Russian Borei Class Astute Class

    5th Generation Fighters: Russian PAK FA US F22 Raptor
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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    It would not take an island 8,000 miles away?

    2 destroyers
    2 frigates
    1 LSL landing ship
    1 LCU amphibious craft
    1 container ship


    Next time you quote Wikipedia you should check the list. That is a list of the ships we lost.

    This is a list of what the Royal Navy alone sent to the SA:

    Active Type 21 Frigate
    Alacrity Type 21 Frigate
    Ambuscade Type 21 Frigate
    Andromeda Leander Class Frigate
    Antelope Type 21 Frigate Lost
    Antrim County Class Destroyer
    Ardent Type 21 Frigate Lost
    Argonaut Leander Class Frigate
    Arrow Type 21 Frigate
    Avenger Type 21 Frigate
    Brilliant Type 22 Frigate
    Bristol Type 82 Destroyer
    Broadsword Type 22 Frigate
    Cardiff Type 42 Destroyer
    Conqueror Nuclear Submarine
    Courageous Nuclear Submarine
    Coventry Type 42 Destroyer Lost
    Dumbarton Castle Offshore Patrol Vessel
    Endurance Antarctic Patrol Vessel
    Exeter Type 42 Destroyer
    Fearless Assault Ship
    Glamorgan County Class Destroyer
    Glasgow Type 42 Destroyer
    Hecla Survey Ship – Used As Ambulance Vessel
    Herald Survey Ship – Used As Ambulance Vessel
    Hermes Aircraft Carrier
    Hydra Survey Ship – Used As Ambulance Vessel
    Intrepid Assault Ship
    Invincible Aircraft Carrier
    Leeds Castle Offshore Patrol Vessel
    Minerva Leander Class Frigate
    Onyx Diesel-Electric Submarine
    Penelope Leander Class Frigate
    Plymouth Type 12 Frigate
    Sheffield Type 42 Destroyer Lost
    Spartan Nuclear Submarine
    Splendid Nuclear Submarine
    Valiant Nuclear Submarine
    Yarmouth Type 12 Frigate


    Minesweeping Trawlers Farnella
    Cordella
    Junella
    Northella
    Pict


    Royal Fleet Auxiliaries Appleleaf Tanker
    Bayleaf Tanker
    Blue Rover Tanker
    Brambleleaf Tanker
    Engadine Helicopter Support Ship
    Fort Austin Stores Replenishment Ship
    Fort Grange Stores Replenishment Ship
    Olmeda Tanker
    Olna Tanker
    Regent Stores Replenishment Ship
    Resource Stores Replenishment Ship
    Sir Bedivere Landing Ship
    Sir Galahad Landing Ship Lost
    Sir Geraint Landing Ship
    Sir Lancelot Landing Ship
    Sir Percivale Landing Ship
    Sir Tristram Landing Ship
    Stromness Stores Replenishment Ship
    Tidepool Tanker
    Tidespring Tanker


    Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service Goosander Mooring Vessel
    Typhoon Tug


    Ships Taken Up From Trade (STUFT) Alvega Tanker
    Anco Charger Tanker
    Astronomer Aircraft Transport
    Atlantic Causeway Aircraft Transport
    Atlantic Conveyor Aircraft Transport Lost
    Avelona Star Stores Ship
    Balder London Tanker
    Baltic Ferry Troop And Vehicle Transport
    British Avon Tanker
    British Dart Tanker
    British Enterprise III Despatch Vessel
    British Esk Tanker
    British Tamar Tanker
    British Tay Tanker
    British Test Tanker
    British Trent Tanker
    British Wye Tanker
    Canberra Troop And Vehicle Transport
    Contender Bezant Aircraft Transport
    Eburna Tanker
    Elk Personnel And Vehicle Transport
    Europic Ferry Personnel And Vehicle Transport
    Fort Toronto Tanker
    Ga Walker Tanker
    Geestport Stores Ship
    Iris Cable Ship
    Irishman Tug
    Laertes Stores Ship
    Lycaon Stores Ship
    Nordic Ferry Troop And Vehicle Transport
    Norland Troop And Vehicle Transport
    Queen Elizabeth II Troop And Vehicle Transport
    St Edmund Troop And Vehicle Transport
    St Helena Minesweeper Support Ship
    Salvageman Tug
    Saxonia Stores Ship
    Scottish Eagle Tanker
    Stena Inspector Repair Ship
    Stena Seaspread Repair Ship
    Tor Caledonia Troop And Vehicle Transport
    Uganda Hospital Ship
    Wimpey Seahorse Mooring Vessel
    Yorkshireman Tug


    Naval Air Squadrons 737 Wessex helicopters
    800 Sea Harriers
    801 Sea Harriers
    809 Sea Harriers
    815 Lynx helicopters
    820 Sea King helicopters
    824 Sea King helicopters
    825 Sea King helicopters
    826 Sea King helicopters
    829 Wasp helicopters
    845 Wessex helicopters
    846 Sea King helicopters
    847 Wessex helicopters
    848 Wessex helicopters
    899 Sea Harriers


    Main Royal Marine Units HQ 3 Commando Brigade
    40 Commando
    42 Commando
    45 Commando
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    (Original post by dzeh)
    What a nonsense comment

    At the moment we got one of the most advanced tanks (challenger 2) in the world (joint with the abrams)

    The most advanced nuclear submarine in the world (astute class/ trident)

    One of the most advanced fighter jets (euro typhoon jet)

    And two massive new aircraft carriers on the way..

    So apparently we are a shadow of what we were 30 years ago?
    30 years ago, Britain had one of the most advanced tanks in the world... (Chieftain) except we had more of them.

    Some of the most advanced submarines in the world except we had more of them.

    In 1979 Britain had four aircraft carriers, two of which could launch strike aircraft, tankers and proper fighter aircraft.

    We had almost twice as many ships
    1980: 4 SSBNs, 11 SSNs, 17 SS/K, 3 CVLs, 2 LHD, 1 CG, 13 DDG, 54 FF/G, 36 mine warfare vessels and 22 patrol ships: 162 overall
    2009: 4 SSBNs, 8 SSNs, 3 CVL, 3 LHD, 7 DDG, 17 FFG, 16 mine vessels, 23 patrol ships: 88 overall

    Britain is, on paper, set to have a powerful navy when we get CVF, all the Type 45s, and the Astute Class. We do not have them yet and as everyone who is interested in Arms Procurement knows, the guarantee of something coming into service is nonexistent until it actually does.
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    (Original post by Giggsy's Girl)
    He was a Royal Marine - 40 Commando.

    More men died than they expected, that's true. There was also a ridiculously high suicide rate post-war from both sides, but my dad himself has no regrets and would do it all over again.
    So he was at the sharp end then. Yes it's sad and true that more Falklands vets have taken their own life.

    The father of a mate from college was in the Para's during the Falklands, he had some harrowing tales too.


    Some very tragic tales too.

    There are so many good books by vets.

    One is called "A Soldiers Song" by a guy called Ken Lukowiak, who served with 2 Para during the Falklands. If there is a book on the Falklands to get, it's this one.

    Another is called "Sod this for a game of soldiers." The Author served with 3 para.
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    (Original post by Rucklo)
    Ah yes we have equipment equal to that of the three current superpowers and occasionally slightly below.

    Russia is still developing its fighters.

    How shocking for an island.
    I'll admit for a tiny island the UK is doing well, however to call it virtually invincible is preposterous.

    It's meeting its demise.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Next time you quote Wikipedia you should check the list. That is a list of the ships we lost.

    This is a list of what the Royal Navy alone sent to the SA:
    Ok I got that wrong, I would research what ships the UK currently has available not in an operation but honestly it's not something I'm too fussed about.

    So I will accept our difference in opinion.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    So he was at the sharp end then. Yes it's sad and true that more Falklands vets have taken their own life.

    The father of a mate from college was in the Para's during the Falklands, he had some harrowing tales too.


    Some very tragic tales too.

    There are so many good books by vets.

    One is called "A Soldiers Song" by a guy called Ken Lukowiak, who served with 2 Para during the Falklands. If there is a book on the Falklands to get, it's this one.

    Another is called "Sod this for a game of soldiers." The Author served with 3 para.
    Yeah that's right, he was one of the first on the island. There was a reunion for those who served and got the South Atlantic medal (with the rosette) a couple of years ago which my dad went to. The reuinion was at the Falklands and he got to see all his buddies he fought alongside. Maybe your mates dad was there! I'll check those books out, thanks.
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    I'll admit for a tiny island the UK is doing well, however to call it virtually invincible is preposterous.

    It's meeting its demise.
    Who said it was invincible?

    Even so.. only US, Russia (Which Britain would give a good fight)and you could try argue 1 or 2 others, would defeat Britain.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    30 years ago, Britain had one of the most advanced tanks in the world... (Chieftain) except we had more of them.

    Some of the most advanced submarines in the world except we had more of them.

    In 1979 Britain had four aircraft carriers, two of which could launch strike aircraft, tankers and proper fighter aircraft.

    We had almost twice as many ships
    1980: 4 SSBNs, 11 SSNs, 17 SS/K, 3 CVLs, 2 LHD, 1 CG, 13 DDG, 54 FF/G, 36 mine warfare vessels and 22 patrol ships: 162 overall
    2009: 4 SSBNs, 8 SSNs, 3 CVL, 3 LHD, 7 DDG, 17 FFG, 16 mine vessels, 23 patrol ships: 88 overall

    Britain is, on paper, set to have a powerful navy when we get CVF, all the Type 45s, and the Astute Class. We do not have them yet and as everyone who is interested in Arms Procurement knows, the guarantee of something coming into service is nonexistent until it actually does.
    With all these cuts, will we even see 2 of the Queen Elizabeth carriers?
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    (Original post by Stalin)
    With all these cuts, will we even see 2 of the Queen Elizabeth carriers?
    GB wants them...
 
 
 
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