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The sheep own me.
Original post by Reformed2010
Sounds like a cult. :s-smilie:


Har de har, very funny.
Original post by GeordieEdgeDXB
Yes, I do believe England possesses a certain amount of power over the country, but that is due to the rest of the world viewing England as the powerhouse of the UK.


As well as the fact that the majority of the people in the UK live in England.

Still I couldn't care less if Scotland decided they wanted to become independent. In the end it would mean I wouldn't have to pay for tuition fees thanks to some bizarre EU law.
Reply 103
Original post by Jim-ie

England has more than the most influence on the union, it is the most important piece of the union. If Scotland left tomorrow the Union would still exist, if England left, the Union would not exist in any way shape or form bar financial and military alliances no different to what the Republic of Ireland has with the UK.


Out of interest, what do you think would happen to Northern Ireland if Scotland left the UK? Aren't a lot of people in Northern Ireland descended from Scots? I would have thought support for NI remaining in the UK would drop massively if such a huge chunk of the UK left, it would challenge the whole concept of Britishness.
Original post by Jim-ie
lol..no you're right, I don't understand what parliamentary democracy is or politics at all for that matter, I just have a degree in the ****ing subject, have been actively involved in political parties in both england and northern ireland and have a special interest in northern ireland politics as well as working with various community organisations that directly involve politicians, ex prisoners and the like on both sides of the divide. So wee son, no trouble with my memory, I speak with experience on the matter, experience that no amount of time on TSR will earn you.


So you say. Frankly it wouldn't matter if you had a Phd in UK Politics from Cambridge, if you were the leader of all political parties in all four home countries, and were the leader of all community organisations in the UK, you're still talking out of your ass. Your supposed credentials mean **** all here, what matters is the substance of your argument, and that is currently nil.

Original post by Jim-ie

England has a population of about 52m, which was a 2008 estimate. It will have no doubt went up since then nor does it include illegal migrants in that figure. Besides if that is the basis of your pedantic argument I automatically win, for the sake of 8m or abouts.


No, the 2008 estimate was 51.4 million. And no, you do not 'automatically win'. You lose, on the basis of the fact that England has a population no where near 60 million. I don't know how they did things on your imaginary university course, but you can't just make up figures to support a bull**** argument.

Original post by Jim-ie

England has more than the most influence on the union, it is the most important piece of the union. If Scotland left tomorrow the Union would still exist, if England left, the Union would not exist in any way shape or form bar financial and military alliances no different to what the Republic of Ireland has with the UK.
The soldiers that occupied both parts of Ireland over the past 120 years were pre-dominantly English, the politicians that were involved were pre-dominatly English, the negotiations on independence, then crown dependency, then on northern ireland were with English politicians. Facts son.


For someone who branded me 'illiterate' you seem to have trouble reading yourself. I have already said that England is the bedrock of the Union, I am not disputing that, no one is disputing that. Stop with the pathetic red herrings.

Original post by Jim-ie

You keep talking about constitutional power, but I've already told you, constitutions are not part of the UKs political culture, so its not me that has the short memory. Unless its in writing on one document, it is not a constitution in the traditional sense.


No, you are simply wrong. A constitution is a set of laws by which an entity is governed. Some entities decide to write them down in a single document, the UK hasn't. One more time: The UK constitution is the sum of all laws that has been passed by parliament. So one more time, which law gives England any legal or constitutional power over the other home nations? The answer is of course none, and that you are simply talking out of your arse.

Original post by Jim-ie

Furthermore, London had direct rule over Northern Ireland for generations, up until our own NI MPs decided to get the finger out. They made the laws, not us.


Yes, last time I checked, London is the capital and administrative centre of the UNITED KINGDOM. The UNITED KINGDOM had direct rule over Northern Ireland, not England. Before devolution, it was the UNITED KINGDOM that ruled, not England. Why are you incapable of getting that into your thick skull?

Original post by Jim-ie

When you criticise the IRA I get a kick out of it because you have no possible way to understand the IRA, nor the UVF for that matter. I think its genuinely funny the way you get wound up by it then assume I somehow support the IRA. Not so much trolling, or else I'd not be "debating" with you, I'd just reply with "lol" or some ****.


Right, because only an Irishmen would understand the IRA right? Obviously everyone else in the world must be ignorant? There is no such thing as a library, or the internet, or television, from which one could learn about things? No, that would just be silly. :rolleyes:
By your own logic, you have no right to be talking about England. So **** off, you silly troll.

Original post by Jim-ie

My ego is grand.


Excessively grand. You think your supposed credentials makes you infallible? No, the man doesn't make the argument, the argument makes the man. And right now your argument is broken.
Original post by pol pot noodles

For someone who branded me 'illiterate' you seem to have trouble reading yourself. I have already said that England is the bedrock of the Union, I am not disputing that, no one is disputing that. Stop with the pathetic red herrings.

Yes, last time I checked, London is the capital and administrative centre of the UNITED KINGDOM. The UNITED KINGDOM had direct rule over Northern Ireland, not England. Before devolution, it was the UNITED KINGDOM that ruled, not England. Why are you incapable of getting that into your thick skull?


Incoherence. If England is the bedrock of the Union, and the Union had direct rule over Northern Ireland, then by proxy England had direct rule over Northern Ireland.
In fairness- there are devolved governments now so it isn't so bad- England seems to suffer actually, higher tuition fees, water charges, prescription costs etc. As someone from Northern Ireland I wonder why our attachment to England - I have no interest in the royal family so given the option of independence - I would think there would be large support from the moderate unionists on the street - maybe not the politicians though.
Wales and Scotland have their own governments.
Original post by FrigidSymphony
Incoherence. If England is the bedrock of the Union, and the Union had direct rule over Northern Ireland, then by proxy England had direct rule over Northern Ireland.


Also look at the number of ministers - number of ministers is proportional to size. Northern Ireland has only 18 ministers in Westminister - how influential exactly is it?
Original post by That Bearded Man
In fairness- there are devolved governments now so it isn't so bad- England seems to suffer actually, higher tuition fees, water charges, prescription costs etc. As someone from Northern Ireland I wonder why our attachment to England - I have no interest in the royal family so given the option of independence - I would think there would be large support from the moderate unionists on the street - maybe not the politicians though.


It's not our fault English people were dumb enough to vote for the Tories.
Original post by That Bearded Man
Also look at the number of ministers - number of ministers is proportional to size. Northern Ireland has only 18 ministers in Westminister - how influential exactly is it?


It has a devolved government anyway, along with Scotland and Wales.
Original post by That Bearded Man
Also look at the number of ministers - number of ministers is proportional to size. Northern Ireland has only 18 ministers in Westminister - how influential exactly is it?


How do you mean?
You clearly lack the historical knowledge or indeed contemporary political knowledge to be taken seriously- even on a tsr conversation!
Actually, it wasn't the will of the Scottish people to join into the Union. It was power-hungry Scottish aristocrats who were promised titles and land if they agreed to sign the Act of Union.
Original post by FrigidSymphony
Incoherence. If England is the bedrock of the Union, and the Union had direct rule over Northern Ireland, then by proxy England had direct rule over Northern Ireland.


No, it didn't. Stop making links where there aren't any. The UK parliament had control over Northern Ireland, not England. The majority of UK MPs are English, but they represent the UK and make decisions on behalf of the UK. England is nothing more than a cultural identity. It has no national assembly and no poltical powers.
Original post by FrigidSymphony
It's not our fault English people were dumb enough to vote for the Tories.


Couldn't agree more mate - then again - the UUP not so slow?
Original post by FrigidSymphony
It's not our fault English people were dumb enough to vote for the Tories.


It's not our fault Scotland has been brainwashed and bribed by decades of the Labour gravy train. Enjoy your crumbling infrastructure and, free or not, your universities suck.
Original post by FrigidSymphony
How do you mean?


I just mean that England is dominant in the Union because England have more seats than the other nations
Original post by pol pot noodles
No, it didn't. Stop making links where there aren't any. The UK parliament had control over Northern Ireland, not England. The majority of UK MPs are English, but they represent the UK and make decisions on behalf of the UK. England is nothing more than a cultural identity. It has no national assembly and no poltical powers.


Cultural identity is an incredibly powerful element.
Original post by pol pot noodles
It's not our fault Scotland has been brainwashed and bribed by decades of the Labour gravy train. Enjoy your crumbling infrastructure and, free or not, your universities suck.


Considering the Conservative motto basically was along the lines of "well, we aren't labour" and used the economic disaster to explain THEIR poor decisions in government.

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