deprived areas get lower offers?

You're confusing two issues. Of course it is easy to much better than the average at a bad school. In fact it is easier to do it at a bad school than at a good school. But that does not imply that you aren't held back by the bad school. I only managed 2 A* grades at GCSE, but that was 100% of the A* grades in my academic year at my drab northern comprehensive school. I got 100% A*-C, when the school average was around 30%.

But even so it's fairly obvious that at a better school I would have done better and thus was 'held back'. If you don't think that's obvious then what do you think makes one school better than another if not the impact it has on student's final grades?

You can't be sure that you weren't held back by your school either. I have no idea what grades you got but how do you know that if you went to a better school you would not now have better grades, and instead of studying at BPP you would now be studying at, say, Oxford?

If you look at data I'm sure you will find that many less comprehensive school pupils achieve Oxford/Cambridge quality grades, say 5+ A*s than do those at private schools. One of the two major factors by far in that statistic will be the quality of teaching at the state school. The state school students having lower innate ability is at most a very minor factor (if it's even true at all). Therefore it is absolutely guaranteed that if, say, Oxford adopts a fixed standard of only admitting students with 5 A*s, they will exclude some state school students whose natural ability for the subject is better than those of some private school students who they admit.

I didn't say 'no impact'.
I'm merely saying it isn't an excuse.
If the school isn't that good, you just work harder. It didn't do me any harm.

A patently unfair system.

I don't think you're seeing my point.

Work harder? How? When the school doesn't have the resources for you to educate yourself?

My high school was severely deprived, so much so now that its closed down. In my experience because I was predicted higher than average grades for that school so long as I was on track to get a C the teachers focused almost entirely on those who were borderline D/C. In many cases I was left to work out of a textbook while the teacher taught the less able students.

Another example. I managed to get into a decent college. My predicted grades were D/C for all my subjects, at AS I got ABCC, and at A2 I got ACC.

So for you to say that it has nothing to do with the school that you attend is ridiculous.

I'm sure you're not seeing mine.

As unfair as having a society where certain individuals are born into incredibly fortunate and favourable circumstances, amirite?


I have friends from very deprived areas in cities like Liverpool that I'm certain are far more intelligent (and better people) than your average private schooled straight into Oxbridge type.

I'm all for some degree of preferential treatment on their behalf if it means them eventually ending up in important and influential positions in the future over someone that just happened to have the right parents.

You seem to be making a point that is distinct from mine.

I'm not very much bothered by people being 'held back' - I'm merely saying they need to meet the requirements of the course they apply for.

If you apply for an AAA course, you need to get AAA - regardless of if you'd get A*A*A*A*A*A* if you were given all the resources in the world.

Again, I don't know where you think I said this. I didn't.

I merely said it is no excuse.

No, I see your point, but I don't see the 'point of your point' - why do you think your last paragraph represents the best way of running university admissions? Why would it not be better to take account of subjective factors like the quality of school attended?

Oh, bore off. People are different, okay? Inequality in a free society is inevitable and is not at all a bad thing.

Like I said, when the school doesn't have the resources for you to work harder how is it possible?

As unfair as having a society where certain individuals are born into incredibly fortunate and favourable circumstances, amirite?


I have friends from very deprived areas in cities like Liverpool that I'm certain are far more intelligent (and better people) than your average private schooled straight into Oxbridge type.

I'm all for some degree of preferential treatment on their behalf if it means them eventually ending up in important and influential positions in the future over someone that just happened to have the right parents.

I didn't say 'no impact'.
I'm merely saying it isn't an excuse.
If the school isn't that good, you just work harder. It didn't do me any harm.

What the kind of resources do you need to be provided?

Say you're studying English Literature. What resources would you need to be provided that you couldn't find on the internet or in a public library?

Well, I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

A patently unfair system.

A patently unfair system.

Well, I think we will just have to agree to disagree.