Man smacks the soul out of woman* on the NY Subway

Original post by scrotgrot

Yep, I agree entirely. Nobody can control their anger indefinitely. The best course of action, if you know you're likely to snap at some stage, is to restrain the woman. This stops her attack before you get to the stage where you snap. And I'd say physical restraint of a woman is something that people generally think is acceptable.

In general the same goes, or should go, for significantly physically weaker men.

Bullcrap. If you are physically smaller than somebody then don't bloody pick a fight with them. You can't assault somebody who is substantially bigger than you and then expect them to hold back simply because you're smaller than they are.

Also, have you ever been in a situation where your body is being flooded with adrenaline? You try and restrain somebody who has hit you and even if they're smaller than you all of a sudden you're not just dealing with them, you're dealing with them on adrenaline and that's a different kettle of fish entirely. Personal experience of what it can do, I crashed my motorbike a few years ago, broke my left wrist in 3 places, did major tendon damage to it at the same time and it was almost a year before I had anything resembling full strength back in that wrist. Immediately after the crash I picked up a 170kg motorbike off its side, wheeled it off to the side of the road, put all the locks on it (which is something that I always do primarily with my left hand), pulled off a very tight pair of bike gloves and called to ask for a lift home, all with a wrist that was so screwed up that it was a good few months before I could put any pressure on it at all without the pain being so bad that I felt like I was going to throw up.

Reply 62

scrotgrot

16

Original post by mackemforever

Bullcrap. If you are physically smaller than somebody then don't bloody pick a fight with them. You can't assault somebody who is substantially bigger than you and then expect them to hold back simply because you're smaller than they are.

Yes, but that's advice for the smaller person. I am giving advice to the bigger person who has to deal with an attack, however misguided, by a smaller person.

Also, have you ever been in a situation where your body is being flooded with adrenaline? You try and restrain somebody who has hit you and even if they're smaller than you all of a sudden you're not just dealing with them, you're dealing with them on adrenaline and that's a different kettle of fish entirely. Personal experience of what it can do, I crashed my motorbike a few years ago, broke my left wrist in 3 places, did major tendon damage to it at the same time and it was almost a year before I had anything resembling full strength back in that wrist. Immediately after the crash I picked up a 170kg motorbike off its side, wheeled it off to the side of the road, put all the locks on it (which is something that I always do primarily with my left hand), pulled off a very tight pair of bike gloves and called to ask for a lift home, all with a wrist that was so screwed up that it was a good few months before I could put any pressure on it at all without the pain being so bad that I felt like I was going to throw up.

I understand, which is why a strong person should probably take responsibility for their strength and introspect so that they can anticipate the red mist coming down. One can of course expect it to go wrong occasionally, but in general with great power comes great responsibility, etc etc. I don't quite agree with the idea that restraint causes a big adrenaline rush, or if it does you should factor in the adrenaline boost from restraint into your "calculation".

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 63

beautifulxxx

She bloody deserved it. Must be some stupid south London chick. See them everywhere.

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Reply 64

mackemforever

Original post by scrotgrot

I understand, which is why a strong person should probably take responsibility for their strength and introspect so that they can anticipate the red mist coming down. One can of course expect it to go wrong occasionally, but in general with great power comes great responsibility, etc etc. I don't quite agree with the idea that restraint causes a big adrenaline rush, or if it does you should factor in the adrenaline boost from restraint into your "calculation".

I mean for the person who you are trying to restrain.

How do you think you would react if somebody tried to grab you and pin your arms to your side or tackle you to the ground? Would you be nice and calm? I highly doubt it, you'd be hopped up on adrenaline thanks to your fight or flight response and all of a sudden you'd be a hell of a lot harder to restrain.

The fact of the matter is that if somebody picks a fight with you then you have the perfect right to end it as quickly as you can in order to protect yourself. If that is by walking away then fine, but in this video he tried that and it didn't work, if that is by knocking the person who started it out then so be it, you have the perfect right to do that.

Reply 65

TimmonaPortella

21

Original post by scrotgrot

Yes, but that's advice for the smaller person. I am giving advice to the bigger person who has to deal with an attack, however misguided, by a smaller person.

I understand, which is why a strong person should probably take responsibility for their strength and introspect so that they can anticipate the red mist coming down. One can of course expect it to go wrong occasionally, but in general with great power comes great responsibility, etc etc. I don't quite agree with the idea that restraint causes a big adrenaline rush, or if it does you should factor in the adrenaline boost from restraint into your "calculation".

To be clear, are you suggesting that the guy in this vid should have controlled his anger so as not to slap the girl?

I'm not angry. I'm a rational, external observer. I say the slap was entirely appropriate. I don't see why a guy who is being abused for no reason should be expected to control the situation with the wellbeing of the girl abusing him forefront in his mind.

Even if she didn't hit him with shoes I think I'd be on his side. I don't approve of violence generally, but I can't help but applaud a swift slap to someone making a scene on public transport and bullying someone for his jacket. That behaviour is unacceptable.

Reply 66

beautifulxxx

Original post by DErasmus

deserved it

they were behaving like animals

Exactly.

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Reply 67

scrotgrot

16

Original post by TimmonaPortella

To be clear, are you suggesting that the guy in this vid should have controlled his anger so as not to slap the girl?

I'm not angry. I'm a rational, external observer. I say the slap was entirely appropriate. I don't see why a guy who is being abused for no reason should be expected to control the situation with the wellbeing of the girl abusing him forefront in his mind.

Even if she didn't hit him with shoes I think I'd be on his side. I don't approve of violence generally, but I can't help but applaud a swift slap to someone making a scene on public transport and bullying someone for his jacket. That behaviour is unacceptable.

That's difficult to judge. I'm not going to condemn him because I understand that rage is impossible to contain indefinitely. I am saying that someone who has the strength to hurt people and often gets in these situations (for example, by living in a "bad" neighbourhood) should probably introspect and learn to head off his own anger before it reaches that point.

I don't think saying he should have the girl's well-being "at the forefront of his mind" (this is overstating my position a little) is too much of an imposition/limit on freedom. Being strong means you are responsible for your strength, just like, say, being a member of a professional body means you are responsible for your conduct. In both cases the person is required to suppress their natural emotions in difficult, frustrating or antagonistic situations. This isn't controversial when it comes to responsibility in other arenas.

Reply 68

scrotgrot

16

Original post by mackemforever

I mean for the person who you are trying to restrain.

How do you think you would react if somebody tried to grab you and pin your arms to your side or tackle you to the ground? Would you be nice and calm? I highly doubt it, you'd be hopped up on adrenaline thanks to your fight or flight response and all of a sudden you'd be a hell of a lot harder to restrain.

The fact of the matter is that if somebody picks a fight with you then you have the perfect right to end it as quickly as you can in order to protect yourself. If that is by walking away then fine, but in this video he tried that and it didn't work, if that is by knocking the person who started it out then so be it, you have the perfect right to do that.

Ahh, I see. I would divide everyone neatly into two groups: 1. restraint is possible, factoring in adrenaline, and 2. restraint is impossible, factoring in adrenaline, and that solves the problem, at least conceptually.

In reality, if the person is restrainable but then breaks out of restraint due to an adrenaline rush, I don't see why that means you can't try to restrain them first and then if they escape hit them. After all, they've then proved they have the strength and the will to escape restraint, which certifies them as a "worthy opponent".

I mean, I admit this isn't the sort of thing you can methodically think through in the moment, but I feel that when talking about it as a distant issue we have to intellectualise it a bit, because the alternative is just to say "follow exactly what your instincts tell you to do"; apart from anything else, advice that just tells you to do what comes naturally is redundant.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 69

TimmonaPortella

21

Original post by scrotgrot

I'm not going to condemn him because I understand that rage is impossible to contain indefinitely. .

I'm more saying that I don't really think he should be expected to, at least not any more than he did. The question concerns more his actions than his emotions, and I think the slap here was a perfectly appropriate rebuke. She, the persistent, unprovoked aggressor, really, genuinely deserved it.

Reply 70

So, this is what happens on the F train at 4:15am...

Anyway, she was clearly being crazy, but it would have been better for him to have hit the emergency call button and gotten off at the next stop/switched cars or something. The emergency call boxes are there for a reason -- The subway operator could've called the police and they could've been there to intervene when the train got to the next stop. Also, I don't get why no one intervened before all of those people started hitting one another. It's ridiculous, honestly -- Whatever happened to people protecting and helping one another?

(edited 9 years ago)

She deserved it.

she barely touched him tho.. but yeah good on him

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Reply 73

Jebedee

Original post by MrMango

she barely touched him tho.. but yeah good on him

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Pretty sure she hit him with a stiletto. If Colin Farrell taught us anything it's that if a woman comes at you with something, you can punch her.

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Reply 74

Why isn't it more appropriate to instead ask the people just standing their like idiots to help you, instead of punching someone so hard they nearly crack their heads open?

Reply 75

Jebedee

Original post by Viceroy

Why isn't it more appropriate to instead ask the people just standing their like idiots to help you, instead of punching someone so hard they nearly crack their heads open?

Maybe he isn't a coward? Plus it was a slap, nothing getting cracked open.

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Reply 76

Original post by Jebedee

Maybe he isn't a coward? Plus it was a slap, nothing getting cracked open.

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Asking for help isn't cowardly; violence is cowardly (on behalf of both of these people). The right thing for him to have done would have been to have pressed the emergency call button and asked the subway operator to have the police waiting at the next stop.

And it was clearly a pretty hard slap which made her fall into the subway pole. Pretty dangerous.

Reply 77

TheNoobishKnight

14

Original post by Viceroy

Why isn't it more appropriate to instead ask the people just standing there like idiots to help you, instead of punching someone so hard they nearly crack their heads open?

This wasn't some sort of a falcon punch. It was a clean juicy slap.
You must be joking to think a slap across the face could crack someone's head open lol.

When someone hits you with something hard from the back of your head, you really think you will just ask people who you don't know to help you? Will you really put your trust on people who don't give a **** about you?
Trust me, even people you know won't do ****. I know this by experience on a bus. They are all high and mighty after **** happens, but during it, they don't do **** and just sit there.

He also taught here a good lesson with that.

Reply 78