Mohammed Ali/Cassius Clay

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naivesincerity

What do you mean made the colour of their skin an irrelevance? It is an irrelevance who wins is the best person, particularly in Jordan and Wood's era, regardless of skin colour.

You think skin colour was an irrelevance in the country club sport of golf when Woods was growing up? Or even now? I know less about basketball, but golf is an extremely white, middle class sport, imbued with a great deal of classism and racism. Woods is pretty special in achieving what he has.

Edit: http://sport.guardian.co.uk/golf/story/0,,2127316,00.html

Reply 21

ForeverIsMyName

Ali was the single greatest boxer ever to live; for that he should be applauded. He also overcame barriers in his life that 99% of people would have fallen at; for that, he deserves recognition of a great human being.

Reply 22

Né Stig

naivesincerity

I'm not disputing his legendary sporting prowess, but I mean overrated as a human being. All the footage and interviews I've seen lead me to the conclusion that he was a pain in the arse. Not charismatic. I prefer Lennox Lewis ffs.

At the same time of wanting to castrate you, I actually agree with you in a sense.

Ali in my opinion, was obnoxious, arrogant and cocky. His stance against the war was treachery, insofar as his obligation to his residing country. He almost got ahead of himself - but who can blame him? The era was insulting to any black person, and it was time to put an end to it. Not only his stance on politics which was aggressive, he was an adulterer, married 4-times (hardly role model material hey?), and had a bazillion kids by all different wives.

The rhetoric before fights though was all show. He would claim he would knock Liston down and so forth, but this was all early boxing marketing. Not one boxer doesn't do this nowadays, especially when you look at Tyson/Lewis or Wright/Hopkins - it's simply all for show.

Ali as a heavyweight boxer = best ever lived. Lennox can't compare due to the type of opponents he faced (get out of jail Tyson, TKO of Klitchsko (sp?), rematch of Rahman etc). But I loved Lennox regardless, and he's a great ambassador for the sport.

So I have mixed feeling of him. It's quite simple that Ali wouldn't be the guy he is today without standing up for his beliefs, but at the same time, the way he chose to argue those points leaves me wondering. Then we have the cheating, cockiness etc.

ForeverIsMyName

Ali was the single greatest boxer ever to live;

Which is completely arguable - as with most boxing fans, they would argue in favour of Sugar-Ray Robinson or/and even Leonard as well as a hatful of other greats such as Marciano, Moore, Louis etc.

Reply 23

donuticus

naivesincerity

What do you mean made the colour of their skin an irrelevance? It is an irrelevance who wins is the best person, particularly in Jordan and Wood's era, regardless of skin colour.

My point is at the time of their achievements, Owens 1930's, Mohammed Ali 1960/70's and Jordan 1980's sadly race did have an affect on a sportsmans popularity. Tiger Woods has changed the way young black Americans see golf, it is no longer the preserve of the white middle class elite.

Reply 24

L i b

Gilliwoo

Nonetheless political prisoners - and, yes, armed political activists - with a just cause (and I don't believe that's necessarily subjective) have my deep respect. Yet for me it's the fact that Mandela's political activities were mostly in aid of something that I consider so unquestionably right, I find it hard to begrudge him respect: the dignity of human beings. Few things rouse our political passions more than a just cause. Call me an idealist, but that's something I admire.