Confessions of a Junior Doctor

Thanks, Democracy. I wouldn't have seen it but would like to.

Reply 3

Democracy

OP

20

Original post by worryguts33

As someone due to start med school in September, this makes for scary viewing. Is it representative of the experience most juniors have?? 😁

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So far I think it's been very representative of aspects of work on a general medical ward.

Original post by Athematica

Thanks, Democracy. I wouldn't have seen it but would like to.

No problem :yy:

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 4

worryguts33

6

Democracy are you as disillusioned as Sam?

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Reply 5

Whiskey&Freedom

3

Watched it. It confirms what everyone knows about doctors and other state employees. They would not last 5 minutes in the private sector. Far too much complaining far too little getting on with the job.

Reply 6

Smile88egc

15

Funny that most doctors working in the private sector seem to be quite succesfull then?
Most choose instead to work for the NHS for longer hours and less pay, but what would I know, I'm just a junior doctor getting on with my job.

Reply 7

neldee95

12

Original post by Whiskey&Freedom

Watched it. It confirms what everyone knows about doctors and other state employees. They would not last 5 minutes in the private sector. Far too much complaining far too little getting on with the job.

Such a shame that you choose to interpret it this way.

Reply 8

Etomidate

15

Original post by Whiskey&Freedom

Watched it. It confirms what everyone knows about doctors and other state employees. They would not last 5 minutes in the private sector. Far too much complaining far too little getting on with the job.

Being a graduate entry doctor, a lot of my colleagues had entered medicine from a variety of different private sector professions. They were categorically flabbergasted at the way they were treated when the first started as doctors, the lack of basic respect given to them by their new NHS employer, the lack of perks that came with the job vs their private job and the overall remuneration.

Things like not being told where in the country your next job will be until a month before your start date, not having actually signed a contract of employment until months after you've been working, not being given a working rota until the start date, being allocated on-call duty for wedding days despite months of notice given to staffing, being forced to take annual leave to attend funerals of family members, being forced to pay for a parking permit, then receiving a parking ticket because theres no space to park.

I could go on.

Reply 9

Overall not a bad insight into working as a junior doctor. I think I'm too cynical to keep watching though - even the story they tried to portray as an uplifting patient cured type story, I'm quite certain how its going to end in the real world makes it actually the saddest!

Original post by worryguts33

As someone due to start med school in September, this makes for scary viewing. Is it representative of the experience most juniors have?? 😁

I'd say... the talks at the beginning were over-dramatic. But then when you see them on the ward its just like that yeah. The thing the TV show really doesn't capture is just how much of your time is spent doing paperwork. In your first year that's probably and without a hint of exaggeration about 90% of your job, if you include scribing on ward rounds and referring to other teams.

I think it also didn't give you a sense of how alone you can be in some roles, nor did it show you any angry families or annoying nurses/other doctors - not all that common but disproportionately obstructive when it does happen.

Original post by Whiskey&Freedom

Watched it. It confirms what everyone knows about doctors and other state employees. They would not last 5 minutes in the private sector. Far too much complaining far too little getting on with the job.

They literally had cameras shoved in their faces and were asked to say how their job was going... not sure how serious this comment can be.

The NHS uses its position as a monopoly employer to treat its employees like dirt. In the private sector you compete not only for customers, but for employees too, and so conditions tend to be a lot better.

I've worked in the private sector and it was a lot easier. My parents both work in professional roles and always get out on time, have lunch and can even just take a phone call from me whenever they want! They also get free parking, holidays when they choose not when their company tells them, they don't have to pay for their own training... its luxury!

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 10

Original post by nexttime

The NHS uses its position as a monopoly employer to treat its employees like dirt. [..] even the story they tried to portray as an uplifting patient cured type story, I'm quite certain how its going to end in the real world makes it actually the saddest!

In the private sector you compete not only for customers, but for employees too, and so conditions tend to be a lot better. I've worked in the private sector and it was a lot easier ... its luxury!

You moved back to the NHS. What prompted that decision?

Reply 11

Original post by Athematica

You moved back to the NHS. What prompted that decision?

Because i wanted to be a doctor and the only way to do that is work in the NHS.

Edit: As an aside and re public vs private, being a private sector junior doctor (pre-consultant level) is generally considered way, way easier than the NHS btw. The private sector only takes on the easy cases, so your patients are simple, and as the patients tend to be more demanding and expect quick responses they tend to over-supply on the staff side. However, there is 0 career progression and you can spend long periods doing nothing so it can be pretty boring and its not a very popular role - its largely done by people who can't handle/have failed in the NHS, or by people who have switched to doing research/another career and want a bit of money on the side.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 12

Original post by nexttime

Because i wanted to be a doctor and the only way to do that is work in the NHS.

Edit: As an aside and re public vs private, being a private sector junior doctor (pre-consultant level) is generally considered way, way easier than the NHS btw. The private sector only takes on the easy cases, so your patients are simple, and as the patients tend to be more demanding and expect quick responses they tend to over-supply on the staff side. However, there is 0 career progression and you can spend long periods doing nothing so it can be pretty boring and its not a very popular role - its largely done by people who can't handle/have failed in the NHS, or by people who have switched to doing research/another career and want a bit of money on the side.

Thanks. It's interesting to hear that perspective.

You make a point to note that this is true pre-consultant. Is the private sector more interesting after that?

Reply 13

HopelessMedic

19

Original post by nexttime

Because i wanted to be a doctor and the only way to do that is work in the NHS.

Edit: As an aside and re public vs private, being a private sector junior doctor (pre-consultant level) is generally considered way, way easier than the NHS btw. The private sector only takes on the easy cases, so your patients are simple, and as the patients tend to be more demanding and expect quick responses they tend to over-supply on the staff side. However, there is 0 career progression and you can spend long periods doing nothing so it can be pretty boring and its not a very popular role - its largely done by people who can't handle/have failed in the NHS, or by people who have switched to doing research/another career and want a bit of money on the side.

Why is it that there is no career progression as a private doctor, is it because of the lack of training opportunities or is it just not possible?

Reply 14

Original post by Athematica

Thanks. It's interesting to hear that perspective.

You make a point to note that this is true pre-consultant. Is the private sector more interesting after that?

My personal experience is limited, but generally speaking i think it is harder, not because the private work is hard - if anything its still significantly easier with simple patients, longer clinic appointments so less rushed, etc - but because you generally have to do NHS work alongside to maintain your skills and reputation working the difficult cases (cases that the private sector would never take on) and that can mean some pretty long hours.

Arrangements can work in different ways though. For example, at my previous hospital any patient could request to be treated privately by a consultant. This would be very lucrative, and its really very easy work as you could just choose to accept the easy patients and not the complex ones. However, doing that alongside the regular NHS job was often just too taxing and consultants would refuse to take people on.

Original post by HopelessMedic

Why is it that there is no career progression as a private doctor, is it because of the lack of training opportunities or is it just not possible?

Not possible - training has to be in the NHS. That makes sense - private hospitals are pretty much exclusively routine operations in healthy adults - you'd emerge from 'training' barely knowing what AF was.

Reply 15

Democracy

OP

20

Original post by nexttime

Overall not a bad insight into working as a junior doctor. I think I'm too cynical to keep watching though - even the story they tried to portray as an uplifting patient cured type story, I'm quite certain how its going to end in the real world makes it actually the saddest!

I agree with this - it is Channel 4 at the end of the day and it has a slight 24 Hours in A&E vibe, which probably explains why they want to make everything have an uplifting ending.

That said, it's not bad at all, and I think so far it's been better than the "Junior Doctors: Your Life in Their Hands" BBC show from five or six years ago. Amongst other things because (and this was really good to see), they filmed this show in a bogstandard DGH as opposed to a PFI teaching hospital in the centre of a big city.

I'd say... the talks at the beginning were over-dramatic. But then when you see them on the ward its just like that yeah. The thing the TV show really doesn't capture is just how much of your time is spent doing paperwork. In your first year that's probably and without a hint of exaggeration about 90% of your job, if you include scribing on ward rounds and referring to other teams.

This is the other thing I also would have commented on (and the thing which laypersons perhaps wouldn't appreciate) - just how much of your time in the first year is spent on the phone, sitting in front of a computer, or filling out forms/other paperwork. Or all three at the same time! Obviously it wouldn't make for a very entertaining show if all they did was put a camera in front of a doctor while they do discharge summary after discharge summary, but I hope subsequent episodes manage to touch on this. If they can work in the rubbishness of sacrificing your spare time to ePortfolio as well, I'll be very impressed :biggrin:

Reply 16

The online channel 4 registration page seems to be broken which is disappointing since registration is required to view programmes online. Ep 1 is viewable on air tonight at 11pm on C4, for those who are having similar issues. Ep 2 isn't being repeated until Wednesday, iirc.

Reply 17

FATMANNOLONGER

13

Original post by nexttime

I've worked in the private sector and it was a lot easier. My parents both work in professional roles and always get out on time, have lunch and can even just take a phone call from me whenever they want! They also get free parking, holidays when they choose not when their company tells them, they don't have to pay for their own training... its luxury!

Hi Nexttime, could you mention what role you were employed in your pre-medic days? Also if you had the opportunity (knowing what you know now) would you flip a switch to take you all the way back to when you were working in the private sector so you could carry on with that instead?

Genuinely curious

Thanks :biggrin:

Reply 18

Helenia

20

Just caught up with it tonight, and have also been to that hospital a couple of times as a relative. It's depressingly realistic, and as someone who's been away from the NHS over this last winter I'm getting more concerned about what I'm going back to.

Apart from a few technical points which I could be pedantic about (needing an urgent NG tube for Abx??) I thought it was pretty good.

Reply 19