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Deciding on "good quality" journals - intercalating MSc dissertation

So, I'm working over summer to complete my dissertation before deadline and going back to 4th year med. I've been growing frustrated at my supervisors who are giving little guidance and staunchly critical of what I've elaborated on, sometimes feeling like we're talking two different languages.

One of the comments I got was to choose my journals carefully, I have a Refworks tank of about 300 papers I can use, and naturally after that I went through to skim out the translated papers and some of the more unusual journals, but I tried to focus on meta-analysis, assuming they were the most reliable, all-round accurate type.

Then I was told to even be careful of those, and to focus on Nature......Nature?

So here I am, looking at the Journal of Clinical Investigation, of Clinical Oncology, of Pathology, International Journal of Breast Cancer research and yet despite not being allowed to actually critique my studies, I'm kinda just supposed to know which ones are good.

So, what types of journals/articles are reliable?
Journals operate on a hierarchy - the more reputable the journal, the more likely it is to get genuinely important and significant research papers submitted to it. Impact factor is a shorthand metric to judge the quality/importance of a journal, but part of becoming a researcher is learning about which journals are top-level (Nature, NEJM, The Lancet, Cell, BMJ, JAMA) and which are bottom level - for the time being, you'll need to use Google. Using the examples you give:

Journal of Clinical Oncology - Impact Factor 20.9. The main journal of the American Society of Clinical Oncology, and a really important journal in the field of cancer research.

Journal of Clinical Investigation - Impact factor 12.7. A multidisciplinary science journal, think of it as like a baby Nature. Not 'bad' but the papers here are probably a bit more boring or less relevant to clinical oncology than the ones in J Clin Oncol.

Journal of Pathology - Impact Factor 6.8. This is quite a small journal in a very dull field. It's probably good for boring references that you just need to cite, but none of its papers are going to be very exciting,

International Journal of Breast Cancer - no Impact Factor. This is an open-access journal (i.e. authors pay to publish in it) published by a company in India. All of these things are red flags for being a potentially unreliable article, because these papers have all been rejected by better journals because they are boring, badly written, repetitive with previous research, or flawed.


But really, you should be reading through as many of those 300 papers as you can and forming your own opinions about what the literature says, not just picking papers based on journals and summarising the contents.
Reply 2
Original post by That Bearded Man
So, I'm working over summer to complete my dissertation before deadline and going back to 4th year med. I've been growing frustrated at my supervisors who are giving little guidance and staunchly critical of what I've elaborated on, sometimes feeling like we're talking two different languages.

One of the comments I got was to choose my journals carefully, I have a Refworks tank of about 300 papers I can use, and naturally after that I went through to skim out the translated papers and some of the more unusual journals, but I tried to focus on meta-analysis, assuming they were the most reliable, all-round accurate type.

Then I was told to even be careful of those, and to focus on Nature......Nature?

So here I am, looking at the Journal of Clinical Investigation, of Clinical Oncology, of Pathology, International Journal of Breast Cancer research and yet despite not being allowed to actually critique my studies, I'm kinda just supposed to know which ones are good.

So, what types of journals/articles are reliable?


Well of course it depends on your topic/field? Nature is a good journal, I don't know why you don't sound keen?

meta-analysis can be useful for getting a bigger picture but they can often be too sweeping of the involved studies and their limitations. I prefer to use them as a way to find more articles, first and foremost.

If they are being strict about which journals you're using to get an idea of how legit they are, just do a google of the ones you are planning on referencing and check out their impact factor (this can often be found on wikipedia, but you will find it elsewhere).
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by prospectivemed56
Journals operate on a hierarchy - the more reputable the journal, the more likely it is to get genuinely important and significant research papers submitted to it. Impact factor is a shorthand metric to judge the quality/importance of a journal, but part of becoming a researcher is learning about which journals are top-level (Nature, NEJM, The Lancet, Cell, BMJ, JAMA) and which are bottom level - for the time being, you'll need to use Google. Using the examples you give:

Journal of Clinical Oncology - Impact Factor 20.9. The main journal of the American Society of Clinical Oncology, and a really important journal in the field of cancer research.

Journal of Clinical Investigation - Impact factor 12.7. A multidisciplinary science journal, think of it as like a baby Nature. Not 'bad' but the papers here are probably a bit more boring or less relevant to clinical oncology than the ones in J Clin Oncol.

Journal of Pathology - Impact Factor 6.8. This is quite a small journal in a very dull field. It's probably good for boring references that you just need to cite, but none of its papers are going to be very exciting,

International Journal of Breast Cancer - no Impact Factor. This is an open-access journal (i.e. authors pay to publish in it) published by a company in India. All of these things are red flags for being a potentially unreliable article, because these papers have all been rejected by better journals because they are boring, badly written, repetitive with previous research, or flawed.


But really, you should be reading through as many of those 300 papers as you can and forming your own opinions about what the literature says, not just picking papers based on journals and summarising the contents.


See this is the thing, I'm happy to read through and dismiss papers that have small numbers of patients etc. but I'm not sure about judging purely based on the journals themselves.

How did you found out the impact factor?
Original post by Moura
Well of course it depends on your topic/field? Nature is a good journal, I don't know why you don't sound keen?

meta-analysis can be useful for getting a bigger picture but they can often be too sweeping of the involved studies and their limitations. I prefer to use them as a way to find more articles, first and foremost.

If they are being strict about which journals you're using to get an idea of how legit they are, just do a google of the ones you are planning on referencing and check out their impact factor (this can often be found on wikipedia, but you will find it elsewhere).


It's on triple negative breast cancer, and its difficult to get papers with a) large enough patient numbers b) distinguish TNBC from other subtypes c) have similar treatment to my cohort

I can't just use Nature, in a nutshell. Also, we dont actually have a uni licence for the Nature spin-offs. Lol
Original post by That Bearded Man
So, I'm working over summer to complete my dissertation before deadline and going back to 4th year med. I've been growing frustrated at my supervisors who are giving little guidance and staunchly critical of what I've elaborated on, sometimes feeling like we're talking two different languages.

One of the comments I got was to choose my journals carefully, I have a Refworks tank of about 300 papers I can use, and naturally after that I went through to skim out the translated papers and some of the more unusual journals, but I tried to focus on meta-analysis, assuming they were the most reliable, all-round accurate type.

Then I was told to even be careful of those, and to focus on Nature......Nature?

So here I am, looking at the Journal of Clinical Investigation, of Clinical Oncology, of Pathology, International Journal of Breast Cancer research and yet despite not being allowed to actually critique my studies, I'm kinda just supposed to know which ones are good.

So, what types of journals/articles are reliable?


I mean, they just sound like bad supervisors who aren't trusting you to be able to decide which is a good article and which isn't.


Original post by prospectivemed56
International Journal of Breast Cancer - no Impact Factor. This is an open-access journal (i.e. authors pay to publish in it) published by a company in India. All of these things are red flags for being a potentially unreliable article, because these papers have all been rejected by better journals because they are boring, badly written, repetitive with previous research, or flawed.


You make it sound like a journal being open access is a bad thing, rather than making science available to developing world doctors and scientists saving lives in the process, and surely the future of science.

Although in the era of sci-hub i guess it matters less.
Original post by nexttime
I mean, they just sound like bad supervisors who aren't trusting you to be able to decide which is a good article and which isn't.




You make it sound like a journal being open access is a bad thing, rather than making science available to developing world doctors and scientists saving lives in the process, and surely the future of science.

Although in the era of sci-hub i guess it matters less.


See, they've asked me to not critique the journals that much, just pick good ones.
Original post by That Bearded Man
See, they've asked me to not critique the journals that much, just pick good ones.


I've heard of people picking 'good' journals to publish their work in because it will get it more exposure. And I've heard how that's a bad thing because it means no one outside of university circles will ever get to read your paper due to the paywall.

I have never heard of anyone using purely the journal to judge whether an article is good in itself or not. That is just ridiculous.
Original post by That Bearded Man
So, I'm working over summer to complete my dissertation before deadline and going back to 4th year med. I've been growing frustrated at my supervisors who are giving little guidance and staunchly critical of what I've elaborated on, sometimes feeling like we're talking two different languages.

One of the comments I got was to choose my journals carefully, I have a Refworks tank of about 300 papers I can use, and naturally after that I went through to skim out the translated papers and some of the more unusual journals, but I tried to focus on meta-analysis, assuming they were the most reliable, all-round accurate type.

Then I was told to even be careful of those, and to focus on Nature......Nature?

So here I am, looking at the Journal of Clinical Investigation, of Clinical Oncology, of Pathology, International Journal of Breast Cancer research and yet despite not being allowed to actually critique my studies, I'm kinda just supposed to know which ones are good.

So, what types of journals/articles are reliable?


300 papers is a lot - I wonder if these are focussed enough. Or, in other words, you don't really want to add another couple of hundred to this, as you're never going to be able to use them all and sorting the wheat from the chaff is going to get increasingly difficult.

Have you used Cochrane reviews before? As to your question about impact factors, you need to be slightly careful with them as they can be slightly blunt - they give a general guide to a journal's reputation but they're not a be-all and end-all metric.

What factors do you use when searching the literature to decide whether or not to use a paper? Say you're using Web of Science - do you sort by 'number of times cited' for instance? I presume you've looked at the papers from all the key authors in your field as a starting point?
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Reality Check
300 papers is a lot - I wonder if these are focussed enough. Or, in other words, you don't really want to add another couple of hundred to this, as you're never going to be able to use them all and sorting the wheat from the chaff is going to get increasingly difficult.

Have you used Cochrane reviews before? As to your question about impact factors, you need to be slightly careful with them as they can be slightly blunt - they give a general guide to a journal's reputation but they're not a be-all and end-all metric.

What factors do you use when searching the literature to decide whether or not to use a paper? Say you're using Web of Science - do you sort by 'number of times cited' for instance? I presume you've looked at the papers from all the key authors in your field as a starting point?


Generally I'm restricted by what they're studying, I need patients with same diagnoses, undergone same FEC chemo and had their resection examined using IHC. I've gone through the most commonly cited but in terms of picking high quality, there aren't that many that meet the strict criteria.

I've stopped using WoS and I'm not needing a specific search strategy.

Essentially my results go completely against the grain, hence I'm balancing the main conclusions from meta analyses, with some lesser papers to justify the counter argument.
Original post by nexttime
I've heard of people picking 'good' journals to publish their work in because it will get it more exposure. And I've heard how that's a bad thing because it means no one outside of university circles will ever get to read your paper due to the paywall.

I have never heard of anyone using purely the journal to judge whether an article is good in itself or not. That is just ridiculous.


Yeah, I'm very critical of my supervisors tbh (not to them obv) honestly I disagree with them in a few cases (namely why this cancer subtype varies so much) explaining the mechanism of why there is resistance (they do not agree with) they also weren't comfortable with the amount of detail I went into regarding the gene activations (relevant IMO for the drug targets) and we disagree over what my conclusion is (I'd like to "suggest" a possible reason as to why my results differ and back it up, but theyve said I cannot speculate with such a low patient sample)
Also, they're Clinical Scientists. I wonder is that a factor?
It sounds like pretty odd advice to me unless it's in the context of you referencing papers in some disreputable/predatory journals. The mantra in my research group is to aim for big journals (BMJ, Lancet, JAMA, etc) and, if rebuffed, to go straight to a reputable open access journal. The latter ensures swift publication and lots of citations as everyone can access the manuscript. There are few incentives to publish in the impact factor 0-12 group anymore unless you're trying to reach a specific group, e.g. the Bone & Joint Journal is read (or at least received by!) most jobbing orthopaedic surgeons.

It's odd that you'd be encouraged only to use top tier journals when the papers you need might be published elsewhere, particularly in the open access literature (PLoS Medicine, PLoS ONE, etc).
Original post by nexttime

You make it sound like a journal being open access is a bad thing, rather than making science available to developing world doctors and scientists saving lives in the process, and surely the future of science.


There's nothing wrong with open access (any and all MRC research, PLoS, half of the BMJ stable of speciality journals, etc.), but as a student with zero expertise in anything I get enough bloody 'invitations to submit a chapter' or 'invitations to review an article' from Hindawi publications that I wouldn't touch the research that they do publish with a barge pole. For someone who's just starting out, 'open access = predatory journal until proven otherwise' isn't the worst rule of thumb to keep OP out of trouble until they develop a nose for it themselves.

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