Will the A* grade at A level disadvantage state school students?

nnnnl

yes, some of them. An A grade is scrapable with **** teachers if you're smart, I think. An A* grade probably isn't for most. Then again it depends which state school. Some have good teachers.

I go to a state school with great teachers

We have a lot of students from the local grammer schools and private schools apply for our 6th form, which shows we are good + we get a lot of students into cambridge/oxford/lse etc

Reply 23

nolongerhearthemusic

No, it will not disadvantage private and state school students equally, since state schools students were already disadvantaged to begin with.

So it will disadvantage private school students more? :s-smilie:

Reply 24

OP

Gesar

Personally I think if you 'scrape an A' then you shouldn't be considered equal with someone who gets 95%+. I think a distinction is needed.

Perhaps if both the students come from the same background. Personally, I am a hundred times more impressed by a student attending a school with a low pass rate scraping an A than a student attending a school which is highest in the league tables achieving 100%.

Btw, I approve of your sig :smile:

Reply 25

OP

BJack

This doesn't prove disproportionately many public school pupils are being admitted. It could be as simple as public school students being better qualified.

This is entirely the point.

Have you even read the article?

Reply 26

desmondmac

1

nnnnl

yes, some of them. An A grade is scrapable with **** teachers if you're smart, I think. An A* grade probably isn't for most. Then again it depends which state school. Some have good teachers.

Yeh I agree with that. But people will argue that for a really exceptional student it wouldn't matter...but of course it does. Otherwise why would they bother going to university and being taught..if they didn't need the help of good teachers.

Also I see A* grades being given out a lot more in science subjects and not so much in the arts

Reply 27

nolongerhearthemusic

This is entirely the point.

Have you even read the article?

Article is entitled Oxbridge statistics point to class bias. Article talks about percentage of successful applicants. Article makes no reference to average point score of applicants. Conclusion? Article wishes to give impression that Oxbridge is biased towards public school students without considering all the variables.

Did I miss anything?

Reply 28

hodgey90

8

nolongerhearthemusic

How does it favour state school students? They are already disadvantaged by having worse grades. Oxbridge already admits private school students disproportionately compared to state school students.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=155794&sectioncode=26

At Oxford, 41 per cent of public school pupils applying gained places. This compares with a 35 per cent success rate for state school applicants.

you seem to have missed the point. yes, right now, oxbridge admits more private school than public school, its clear from your evidence. but it probably will not be like that in, say, 5 years time. there will not be as bigger emphasis on grades as there is now. there will have to be, if uni's really want to make the spread of applicants more diverse

Reply 29

OP

BJack

Article is entitled Oxbridge statistics point to class bias. Article talks about percentage of successful applicants. Article makes no reference to average point score of applicants. Conclusion? Article wishes to give impression that Oxbridge is biased towards public school students without considering all the variables.

Did I miss anything?

I am referring to the BBC article in the original post, the gist of which is

It estimates that 3,050 candidates would have achieved three grade A*s. Of these 1,150 (almost 39%) would have come from independent schools.

This is a higher proportion than the percentage of independent school pupils achieving grade three As at present (just over 34%), suggesting there is a risk that the A* could lead to even greater domination by the independent schools of admissions to top universities.

Reply 30

nolongerhearthemusic

I am referring to the BBC article in the original post, the gist of which is

It estimates that 3,050 candidates would have achieved three grade A*s. Of these 1,150 (almost 39%) would have come from independent schools.

This is a higher proportion than the percentage of independent school pupils achieving grade three As at present (just over 34%), suggesting there is a risk that the A* could lead to even greater domination by the independent schools of admissions to top universities.

Oh right. In which case, I return to my original point. This discriminates against less well-qualified students, not state school students.

Reply 31

fisherman

16

Roobagnall

Just because you go to a private school dosnt make you smart.
I know someone who goes to a £30000 a year school, and failed...

I think it will just help show who are the most exeptional students are...

It doesn't make you smart, but it does make you good as passing exams. One example does not prove your point.

The most exceptional students, I believe, are spread fairly evenly. I am sure private schools do not have more than 50% of the most exceptional students, but still over 50% of students at the best universities are from private schools. Why? Better teaching and facilities.

What I think would be better, is exams which have questions that find out who has ability to do the subject, not the ability to memorise vast amounts of formulae and facts. In other words, make the exams soley problem solving.

Reply 32

OP

hodgey90

you seem to have missed the point. yes, right now, oxbridge admits more private school than public school, its clear from your evidence. but it probably will not be like that in, say, 5 years time. there will not be as bigger emphasis on grades as there is now. there will have to be, if uni's really want to make the spread of applicants more diverse

If grades are considered less than they are now in the future, then yes you're right. However, the A* has been added to A levels in order that top universities can tell the difference between a low and a high A, which suggests that they will consider grades. Furthermore, as high As are far more likely to be achieved by private school students, they will be far more likely to be accepted into top universities.

Reply 33

OP

BJack

Oh right. In which case, I return to my original point. This discriminates against less well-qualified students, not state school students.

State school students are more likely to be less well-qualified, not because of ability but because of the school they attend. Therefore, they are disadvantaged by the school they attend. Therefore state school students are at a disavantage.

Reply 34

Roobagnall

nolongerhearthemusic

Private school students are statistically more likely to achieve high grades. The 'most exceptional students' are likely to be those who attend private schools.

No. Im saying that the most exceptional students as in;

The people who are willing to work the hardest and with the highest IQ, natural ability, smarts, cleverist... how ever you want to put it. statisicaly those people are more likely to come from state education as the varst majority of people attend state schools...

Reply 35

OP

Roobagnall

No. Im saying that the most exceptional students as in;

The people who are willing to work the hardest and with the highest IQ, natural ability, smarts, cleverist... how ever you want to put it. statisicaly those people are more likely to come from state education as the varst majority of people attend state schools...

By your reasoning, a higher propotion of state school students will achieve A*s. However, this is not what is estimated in the article

It estimates that 3,050 candidates would have achieved three grade A*s. Of these 1,150 (almost 39%) would have come from independent schools.

Reply 36

hodgey90

8

nolongerhearthemusic

If grades are considered less than they are now in the future, then yes you're right. However, the A* has been added to A levels in order that top universities can tell the difference between a low and a high A, which suggests that they will consider grades. Furthermore, as high As are far more likely to be achieved by private school students, they will be far more likely to be accepted into top universities.

i agree with you, which leads me to believe we have reached a stalement. the A* has been introduced to differentiate between candidates more effectively, which shows they are putting importance on the grades. however, it is known the uni's want to make the applicants more diverse, which would mean accepting more people from state schools. however, your evidence shows private schools get better grades than state schools.

basically, the uni's must decide bewtween diversity and intelligence, as if you are right, they cant have both

Reply 37

nolongerhearthemusic

State school students are more likely to be less well-qualified, not because of ability but because of the school they attend. Therefore, they are disadvantaged by the school they attend. Therefore state school students are at a disavantage.

Oh right, and since the disparity between public and state schools is greater with the inclusion of an A* grade, the problem is only being magnified? I understand what you're saying now.

Reply 38

OP

BJack

Oh right, and since the disparity between public and state schools is greater with the inclusion of an A* grade, the problem is only being magnified? I understand what you're saying now.

It really does help when people read the article discussed in the original post :wink:

Reply 39

Roobagnall