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    In y opinion, the chemicall treatment of food today is way more irresponsible than the biomolecular genetic manipulation. After all, GM food is the most extensively tested product on the mareket, and when you take into considderation the amounts of antibiotics the meet industry inject to the stuff we eat, I dont really think the GM food is that bad in comparision...
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    In y opinion, the chemicall treatment of food today is way more irresponsible than the biomolecular genetic manipulation. After all, GM food is the most extensively tested product on the mareket, and when you take into considderation the amounts of antibiotics the meet industry inject to the stuff we eat, I dont really think the GM food is that bad in comparision...

    No matter how much testing you do, you are oblivious to the long term effects of this technology.
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    No matter how much testing you do, you are oblivious to the long term effects of this technology.
    Will someone enlighten me as to why we are using GM food anyway? There is supposed to be a huge surplus of crops anyway without GM.
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    Will someone enlighten me as to why we are using GM food anyway? There is supposed to be a huge surplus of crops anyway without GM.
    Well, less nature have to succumb to crops... The quality of the products may also increase. As an example, natural tomatoes do not last half as long as the GM ones...
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    No matter how much testing you do, you are oblivious to the long term effects of this technology.
    This is also the case with chemical treatement. Why should you be so much more sceptical to the GM alternative?
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    Will someone enlighten me as to why we are using GM food anyway? There is supposed to be a huge surplus of crops anyway without GM.
    It has a few benefits but I don't think there are that many to make it really worth while. For example, crops can be made resistant to pesticide and genes can be inserted that produce the best varieties; the juiciest apples, etc. I think the potential risks far outweigh the benefits.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Well, less nature have to succumb to crops... The quality of the products may also increase. As an example, natural tomatoes do not last half as long as the GM ones...
    Well ok, out of convenience food would last longer, but the whole point of food is that we eat it instead of save it for ages lol
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    This is also the case with chemical treatement. Why should you be so much more sceptical to the GM alternative?

    Becuase chemical treatment has been around for much longer than GM and it seems not to cause too much damage. I buy organic though.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Well, less nature have to succumb to crops... The quality of the products may also increase. As an example, natural tomatoes do not last half as long as the GM ones...

    But tomato shelf-life can be increased by simply adding ethene.
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    But tomato shelf-life can be increased by simply adding ethene.
    crikey, you know your stuff...are you wanting to do chemistry at oxbridge?
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    crikey, you know your stuff...are you wanting to do chemistry at oxbridge?
    Natural sciences at Cambridge.
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    crikey, you know your stuff...are you wanting to do chemistry at oxbridge?
    Not "are you wanting"!

    "Do you want"
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Not "are you wanting"!

    "Do you want"
    I've heard people say 'are you wanting' before. I think it's allowed.
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    Becuase chemical treatment has been around for much longer than GM and it seems not to cause too much damage. I buy organic though.
    Different chemicals are different you know? Just a minor difference in the shape of a molecule and you get dramaticly different results. It is not correct to say that chemical food is safe whereas GM is unsafe, it depends upon exactly what kind of chemicals you use, and in which concentrations. Just because adding E 330 is harmless (Vitamin C ) , it doesnt mean that the same applies to E 345. Furthemore, unless I am mistaken a certain artificial sweetener cause acute damage to the brain and make you a mental retart for the rest of yoru life if you have a certain rare disease. So they are not perfectly safe... Also, Antibiotic resistant bacteria have been tracked to the meet industry. In general, there is no reason to beleive the chemical treatment to be less harmfull than GM food. Yet GM food is almost tabu, while noone cares about the amount of chemicals you have in todays food...
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Different chemicals are different you know? Just a minor difference in the shape of a molecule and you get dramaticly different results. It is not correct to say that chemical food is safe whereas GM is unsafe, it depends upon exactly what kind of chemicals you use, and in which concentrations. Just because adding E 330 is harmless (Vitamin C ) , it doesnt mean that the same applies to E 345. Furthemore, unless I am mistaken a certain artificial sweetener cause acute damage to the brain and make you a mental retart for the rest of yoru life if you have a certain rare disease. So they are not perfectly safe... Also, Antibiotic resistant bacteria have been tracked to the meet industry. In general, there is no reason to beleive the chemical treatment to be less harmfull than GM food. Yet GM food is almost tabu, while noone cares about the amount of chemicals you have in todays food...
    Chemical treatment may not be less harmful but we are aware of most of the risks assosciated with it. Treating things with chemicals is not a new idea, but altering the genetic makeup of something is a very recent technology which is not fully understand. When this is applied to crops, the damage caused is not quite as obvious as when it has been used to manipulate the DNA of animals (and people) and this is why it is advisable to take a cautious approach. It has produced some disturbing results in animal studies, three pigs cloned using a relatively new technique suddenly died of heart failure, yet tests revealed that their hearts had been perfectly healthy. Attempts to treat children suffering from SCID using gene therapy resulted in many contracting leukaemia. Also, whilst these foods have been consumed in America for about six or seven years, it took more than this before they first started to notice the effects of modified corn starch. And I think the detrimental effects of thalydamide were noticed only after the drug had been taken by many thousands of people (the effects occur in their offspring), and these had been tested extensively.
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Different chemicals are different you know? Just a minor difference in the shape of a molecule and you get dramaticly different results. It is not correct to say that chemical food is safe whereas GM is unsafe, it depends upon exactly what kind of chemicals you use, and in which concentrations. Just because adding E 330 is harmless (Vitamin C ) , it doesnt mean that the same applies to E 345. Furthemore, unless I am mistaken a certain artificial sweetener cause acute damage to the brain and make you a mental retart for the rest of yoru life if you have a certain rare disease. So they are not perfectly safe... Also, Antibiotic resistant bacteria have been tracked to the meet industry. In general, there is no reason to beleive the chemical treatment to be less harmfull than GM food. Yet GM food is almost tabu, while noone cares about the amount of chemicals you have in todays food...
    The problem with GM food is that we don't know much about it....if governments persist with it then we will undoubtedly uncover any secrets it may have (not that there has to be any)...the difference between that and chemically treated products is that we have far more experience of chemicals as ralfskini pointed out, but also we have a lot of theory to back up the usefulness of chemicals since it IS a subject which we can rely on theory heavily as chemistry is almost a complete science. True some chemicals are nasty but isn't this why so many gardening chemicals have been banned?
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    The problem with GM food is that we don't know much about it....if governments persist with it then we will undoubtedly uncover any secrets it may have (not that there has to be any)...the difference between that and chemically treated products is that we have far more experience of chemicals as ralfskini pointed out, but also we have a lot of theory to back up the usefulness of chemicals since it IS a subject which we can rely on theory heavily as chemistry is almost a complete science. True some chemicals are nasty but isn't this why so many gardening chemicals have been banned?

    Absolutely.
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    And I think the detrimental effects of thalydamide were noticed only after the drug had been taken by many thousands of people
    Doesnt this just show that synthetic chemicals are not as safe afterall? To be even more specific thalydamide exist as two optical isomers, and only one of these isomeres cause the problems. The other isomer gives the desiered effect. If anything this shoyuld show that the synthetic chemicals are not generally safe just cus they have been around for a long time. A minor difference in the structure might give disasterous consequences. Future chemicals may react radically diferent than previous ones. We do NOT understand the consequences of chemicals in food any better than GM food. If anyone claim to have an even close to complete understanding of the chemical system in the boddy, he or she deserves a nobel price...

    I do not say that you should just release GM food without regulations, but Im saying that the policy versus chemicals in food and GM food are radically different, without any real reason. Chemicals can have just as bizarre side effects as GM, yet the restrictions are not half as rash..
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Doesnt this just show that synthetic chemicals are not as safe afterall? To be even more specific thalydamide exist as two optical isomers, and only one of these isomeres cause the problems. The other isomer gives the desiered effect. If anything this shoyuld show that the synthetic chemicals are not generally safe just cus they have been around for a long time.
    You said it yourself, we should learn from the thalydamide mistake and NOT put our efforts into GM food (especially as we would be better spending time on something more problematic such as global warming together with the energy problem (oil doesn't last forever )).
 
 
 
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