The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2010

OP

Surrey moved to ABB.2

ABB.2 (320 Points) Not in clearing for striaght ecnomics in 2008; accept lower offers: RH BBB(with Maths) in 2008, Sussex (BBB) Surrey (ABB/BBB?); Intermediate numbers of students below 320: Liverpool 20%, Sheffield 22%, Sussex 25%, RH 26%
25) Sheffield X (c) Ba: ABB m#b (2009 BBB-BBbb) Bsc:ABB-BBbb M**B 369
26) Liverpool X (c) BBB with either Maths or Economics/ ABB without either Maths or Economics M*b (2009 BBB) 361
27) Sussex X ABB-BBB m#b 350
28) Royal Holloway X (c) ABB if M**/AAB if M*b/AAA m#a M**p E**p (UCAS 2010 has ABC-BBB if M**/ABB if M*b/AAB if m#a)348
29) Surrey X (c) uni website ABB/BBB E**p/M**p m#b (ABB on UCAS 2010) 329 (Average points Independent 2010)

and I have replaced the Times 2009 Average Tariff with the Independent 2010 Average Tariff through out.

Reply 41

ElemenT'

13

Shame those entry tarriffs are from 2006-2007. Also why the hell is QMUL above Loughborough, Leeds, and Newcastle? O_o

Reply 42

Paulwhy

OP

13

ElemenT'

Shame those entry tarriffs are from 2006-2007.

Well I think now they should by 07/08.
i.e. the 2009 table was 06/07 so the 2010 table should be 07/08.
Can you tell me where I have said it is 06/07 so I can update?

ElemenT'

Also why the hell is QMUL above Loughborough, Leeds, and Newcastle? O_o

Well TAELT is primarily a competivity table. i.e. in terms of who they give offers to and what those offers are. I think all 4 of those unis:
i) make overs to nearly all applicants
ii) make AAB offers (except Loughborough which makes ABB)

hence the QM demand for B in Maths is the tie breaker.

But to be clear I am not saying that QM is better than the other 3. And further QM has the imfamous -- status.

Also finally this may not be the best way of representing the competivity of the unis in this area. i.e. if you were to think that QM were to be only weakly defending the AAB position then you might think their situation was similar to that of Cardiff. And you might think that the 2009 QM Extra and 2008 Clearing records were significant. And in particular if QM is in clearing for econ again this year the 'claim' that they will clear at AAB looks especially spurious.

Reply 43

ElemenT'

13

Paulwhy

Well I think now they should by 07/08.
i.e. the 2009 table was 06/07 so the 2010 table should be 07/08.
Can you tell me where I have said it is 06/07 so I can update?

Well TAELT is primarily a competivity table. i.e. in terms of who they give offers to and what those offers are. I think all 4 of those unis:
i) make overs to nearly all applicants
ii) make AAB offers (except Loughborough which makes ABB)

hence the QM demand for B in Maths is the tie breaker.

But to be clear I am not saying that QM is better than the other 3. And further QM has the imfamous -- status.

Also finally this may not be the best way of representing the competivity of the unis in this area. i.e. if you were to think that QM were to be only weakly defending the AAB position then you might think their situation was similar to that of Cardiff. And you might think that the 2009 QM Extra and 2008 Clearing records were significant. And in particular if QM is in clearing for econ again this year the 'claim' that they will clear at AAB looks especially spurious.

Not anymore... They will only give out AAB offers now due to a 60% rise in applications going on a 40% rise the year before.

Reply 44

Paulwhy

OP

13

ElemenT'

Not anymore... They will only give out AAB offers now due to a 60% rise in applications going on a 40% rise the year before.

Yes AAB is what UCAS 2010 says.
But it would be nice if their website confirmed this.
i.e. the 2009 link is dead. But it used to say:
(2009 ABB/AAC/ABab/AAbc) m#c

So if applying there I would want to email them first to have the conditions confirmed.
In particular I would want to know if they were making variant offers e.g. for candidates with extra AS-levels.

Reply 45

ElemenT'

13

Paulwhy

Yes AAB is what UCAS 2010 says.
But it would be nice if their website confirmed this.
i.e. the 2009 link is dead. But it used to say:
(2009 ABB/AAC/ABab/AAbc) m#c

So if applying there I would want to email them first to have the conditions confirmed.
In particular I would want to know if they were making variant offers e.g. for candidates with extra AS-levels.

The 2010 prospectus states.

"A Level (not including General Studies or Key Skills): 340 points from 3 A Levels"

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/prospectus/ug/courses/dept/ec/economics/index.htm

The previous year was 320 points from ABB/AAC I believe.

Reply 46

astudent

7

hamzab

Personal Statement wise: My PS Im glad to say is full of Extra Cirruculars,

Im no Paulwhy, but I will give you my 2p of a former gap year applicant. The worst thing you can do is fill your statement with ECs - the only really useful ones mathematics competitions or have helped in serious economics research (unlikely). Focus on academic interest / debate instead.

Reply 47

Paulwhy

OP

13

ElemenT'

The 2010 prospectus states.

"A Level (not including General Studies or Key Skills): 340 points from 3 A Levels"

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/prospectus/ug/courses/dept/ec/economics/index.htm

The previous year was 320 points from ABB/AAC I believe.

Thanks for that and TAELT has now been updated.

AAB/ABB.1 (320 Points) (Up to 17% of students have less than 320 points: Cardiff 9%, Loughborough 17%) Loughbourgh ABB in 2009
21) Cardiff (BScEcon) X AAB/ABB M**B (2009 ABB) 398 (Times 25th,Independent 23th,Guardian 43th)
22) Loughborough AAB m#c(2009 ABB/AAC/ABab/AAbc) 378 (Times 16th, Independent 25th(25th), Guardian 33rd(23th))

astudent

Im no Paulwhy, but I will give you my 2p of a former gap year applicant. The worst thing you can do is fill your statement with ECs - the only really useful ones mathematics competitions or have helped in serious economics research (unlikely). Focus on academic interest / debate instead.

Pleased to hear that I am unique (or atleast if I have a double you are not here).
Also there is a whole thread on Econ PSs...

Reply 48

hamzab

12

Paulwhy

Thanks for that and TAELT has now been updated.

Pleased to hear that I am unique (or atleast if I have a double you are not here).
Also there is a whole thread on Econ PSs...

I doubt anyone else would take out this much time to combine a thread on Econ courses at Unis!

They should give you some shares in TSR to say thank you... Or something... :biggrin:

Reply 49

Paulwhy

OP

13

Updated Bath's entry to include the GCSE A* requirement and their strong preference for applicants to declare their AS grade:

9) Bath AAA-AAB (2009 AAB) M**A E**p declare AS grades m#a* 454 140 places 1600 applicants

and added a question:

What about if I do not meet the GCSE requirement for Maths but am doing AS-level or A-level Maths?
You should check with the uni concerned: they may be flexible.

Reply 50

Paulwhy

OP

13

New Question

Are there any versions of this table for other subjects?
Yes there is for PPE
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=916175
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rlJA2q_8vQDCwOE_aJ2qV_w&output=html

Reply 51

neomilan

17

Times 2010 League table
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/tol_gug/gooduniversityguide.php?subject=ECONOMICS

Reply 52

Paulwhy

OP

13

updated the top of TAELT. It is now:

AAA.0.0 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than Admissions. High GCSE A* requirement. No Interviews to sell yourself)
1) LSE AAA M**A 523 Applications:Offers data

AAA.0.1 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Between 9 and 16 applicants per offer. Not many more offers than Admissions. e.g. approximately 200 offers)
2) Oxford AAA M**p 538 3 Average intake 84; 10.1% applicant :redface:

ffer ratio Typical Intake 75 applicant/offer ratio 08/09 cycle 1166/73 (6.26%)

AAA.0.2 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than Admissions. e.g. Cambridge approximately (200 offers, 5 or 6 applicants per offer, and typically a 90% conversion rate)
3) Cambridge A*AA M** E**p (AAA on UCAS 2010) (2009 AAA) 554 Recent Offers:Admissions Ratios 2006 (193:177) 2007 (205:185)

LSE is ranked as hardest to get into on the bais that there is no interview to sell yourself at. Oxford is higher than Cambrdige due to the higher applicants per offer at Oxford. (between 9 and 16 at Oxford c.f. between 5 and 6 at Cambridge).

it was:

AAA.0 (360 Points) (No non-AAA offers even if taking >3 A-levels. Not many more offers than Admissions. e.g. Cambridge approximately 200 offers and with a 90% Admission rate)
1) Cambridge A*AA M** E**p (AAA on UCAS 2010) (2009 AAA) 554 Recent Offers:Admissions Ratios 2006 (193:177) 2007 (205:185)
2) Oxford AAA M**p 538 3 Average intake 84; 10.1% applicant :redface:

ffer ratio Typical Intake 75 applicant/offer ratio 08/09 cycle 1166/73 (6.26%)
3) LSE AAA M**A 523 Applications:Offers data

Reply 53

RoflRofl

Paulwhy

updated the top of TAELT. It is now:

it was:

Would you be open to changing your ranking? From the inside I really, really dispute that LSE is the hardest to get into.

For a few reasons:
To get into oxbridge you need great academics, and then you NEED to impress in the interview. You need both. Also, many colleges have entrance tests which you need to do well at to get into Oxbridge.
Also, due to the fact that most LSE students are Oxbridge rejects and not the other way round (by which I mean Oxbridge is the top choice) they have to be more choosy by design.

Also getting in to LSE Economics is a well known formular, high gcse's, 3 A's at A-level and decent PS (of what standard I am unsure, I would think a not so great one due to the many students who's english is terrible).

Reply 54

Paulwhy

OP

13

RoflRofl

Would you be open to changing your ranking?

Yes sure, if there was a strong enough case.

RoflRofl

From the inside I really, really dispute that LSE is the hardest to get into.

For a few reasons:
To get into oxbridge you need great academics, and then you NEED to impress in the interview. You need both. Also, many colleges have entrance tests which you need to do well at to get into Oxbridge.

Yes interestingly that fact about the extra stages in the OXbridge admission process is one of the reasons I have them below LSE. :smile:

To use a technical economics term, Oxbridge entry is a tournament: a fixed number of applicants are accepted from a pool. So applicants need to show their skills not in absolute terms but relative to those of other candidates. So the more extensive the process the better the chance that the best candidates will be selected. So if you are a top applicant then the more extensive Oxbridge process will be to your advantage.

Also Oxbridge do interview a lot of candidates. e.g. I recall reading on the Oxford website that they interview 90% of applicants. So that gives nearlly everyone a chance to make their pitch.

RoflRofl

Also, due to the fact that most LSE students are Oxbridge rejects and not the other way round (by which I mean Oxbridge is the top choice) they have to be more choosy by design.

Any evidence you had on that would be imformative. In particular offers: acceptances data could be insightful.

RoflRofl

Also getting in to LSE Economics is a well known formular, high gcse's, 3 A's at A-level and decent PS (of what standard I am unsure, I would think a not so great one due to the many students who's english is terrible).

Yes qualatively it is clear that those factors are important. But quantatively:
i)how many GCSE A*s do LSE want? 6? 8? 10?
ii) Are 3 A-level really enough to have a good chance of an LSE offer? e.g. the average LSE tariif is 523.
iii) At non-Oxbridge unis the PS is the unique chance to sell yourself. And in my experiecing reading a lot of them (100+) they are nearly all moderate (if I was feeling ungenerous I would decribe them as terrible or barely fit for purpose). and hence the limited value they have in deciding which students get offers.
So for me it is not so clear what is requried to get an LSE offer.

Reply 55

Paulwhy

OP

13

ElemenT'

Shame those entry tarriffs are from 2006-2007. Also why the hell is QMUL above Loughborough, Leeds, and Newcastle? O_o

The position of QM has been reviewed. And pending this years clearing process QM is relagated to the section for unis regularly in Clearing and Extra:

AAB.3 (340 Points) QM BBB in 2009 33% of students less than 320 points Clearing in 2008
31) Queen Mary X (Cc) 2010 AAB (2009 BBB) M**B 370 (Times 23rd(34th),Independent 23rd(32th),Guardian 22nd)

If QM are not in clearing in 2009 then they may get moved up.

Reply 56

andrew.P

Hi Paul, I've been told you're great at economics, so i thought i'd ask for some advice! I'm applying for economics this year with 9A*s 2As at GCSE and predicted 4As at A level (Eco, maths, history and geography). What universities would you suggest?

*The thing is, I think I've messed up my maths AS.. it should be an A overall but a very low one. I know that in January when i resit i should be able to get very high ums in C1 C2, but by the time i apply they will only receive my quite low A maths grade.

This is especially important because i was thinking of applying to Cambridge. Do you think i should email them or something. Or is there any way of "hiding" grades, or a way i could somehow get them to incorporate a further maths AS into their offer (ie say that i'll take FM AS, and that they can offer me like A*AAa?)

Reply 57

Paulwhy

OP

13

andrew.P

Hi Paul, I've been told you're great at economics, so i thought i'd ask for some advice! I'm applying for economics this year with 9A*s 2As at GCSE and predicted 4As at A level (Eco, maths, history and geography). What universities would you suggest?

*The thing is, I think I've messed up my maths AS.. it should be an A overall but a very low one. I know that in January when i resit i should be able to get very high ums in C1 C2, but by the time i apply they will only receive my quite low A maths grade.

This is especially important because i was thinking of applying to Cambridge. Do you think i should email them or something. Or is there any way of "hiding" grades, or a way i could somehow get them to incorporate a further maths AS into their offer (ie say that i'll take FM AS, and that they can offer me like A*AAa?)

1)You do not know yet what grade you will get so don't overplan.
2)You do not know yet what AS grades you will have.
3)Top unis will not change their offer to a stretch offer if your grades displease them. But doing FM will improve your skills and help your academic record.
4)My 'standard' 2010 suggestion is:
1 AAA.0
1 AAA*.0/AAA.1.0
1 AAA.1.1/AAA-B.1.0
1 AAA-B.1.1/AAB.1.1
1 AAB.2.1

i.e. even with 4 A-levels you need a AAB.2.1 safety and this way you get 1 uni at each of the increasing levels of competivity above that safe level.

Reply 58

neomilan

17

Paulwhy

1)You do not know yet what grade you will get so don't overplan.
2)You do not know yet what AS grades you will have.
3)Top unis will not change their offer to a stretch offer if your grades displease them. But doing FM will improve your skills and help your academic record.
4)My 'standard' 2010 suggestion is:
1 AAA.0
1 AAA*.0/AAA.1.0
1 AAA.1.1/AAA-B.1.0
1 AAA-B.1.1/AAB.1.1
1 AAB.2.1

i.e. even with 4 A-levels you need a AAB.2.1 safety and this way you get 1 uni at each of the increasing levels of competivity above that safe level.

1 AAA.0 == LSE or Oxford or Cambridge
1 AAA*.0/AAA.1.0 == UCL or Warwick
1 AAA.1.1/AAA-B.1.0 == durham nottinham bristol
1 AAA-B.1.1/AAB.1.1 == bath st andrews
1 AAB.2.1 == york, southampton, birmingham

am i right?

Reply 59

Paulwhy

OP

13

neomilan

1 AAA.0 == LSE or Oxford or Cambridge
1 AAA*.0/AAA.1.0 == UCL or Warwick
1 AAA.1.1/AAA-B.1.0 == durham nottinham bristol
1 AAA-B.1.1/AAB.1.1 == bath st andrews
1 AAB.2.1 == york, southampton, birmingham

am i right?

Yes that is an accurate transcription of the information on page 1 of this thread. Well Done. :smile:

The Alternative Economics League Table (TAELT) 2010

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