Film Fanatics Society - Chat Thread

OP

Original post by Jace Falco

While it is a lot of fun, Fallout 3 suffers from the same problem that all Bethesda games do - an utter lack of character development.

I don't think real character development in terms of story is the aim of their games. It plays a big part in Mass Effect because there are key figures who make decisions, who you make decisions about, who form part of your crew, your alliance or your enemies. They have things that motivate them, things you manipulate or charm your way through. They have backstories because they are constantly with you, or an integral part of your experience. I don't see that being the aim in development for Oblivion or Fallout.

Gameplay development - it's very much, you - the character, thrust into a new world as a blank slate, development not being as restricted as Mass Effect. Wouldn't say it was a problem at all, it suits the games.

Reply 8223

OP

Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 this year. :emo:

Reply 8224

Phalanges

Anyone talking positively about Film 2011 automatically goes down in my estimations.

Original post by kingrudding

I have a question for everyone. What is your absolute turn offs when watching films, form a technical point of view.

Scenes when I am pulled out of the moment, like awkward exposition or showy camerawork just for the hell of it.

An utterly generic film that doesn't do or try anything unique.

Moments of fan service or referencing that intrudes on the enjoyment of the film for anyone who doesn't get it.

Reply 8225

Original post by kingrudding

I tend to disagree. Your actions shape the entire world around you, how people will interact with you and indeed shapes your character itself. Now whilst I will admit, your character is a blank slate and is far less scripted than in something like mass effect, that isn't a bad thing in my opinion. It helps make the game feel far less linear. I suppose it is a matter of preferance with whether you want more of a scripted, polished game or one where you can, if you want to, leave the main campaign behind and just roam the world right from the outset.

I had a feeling that you might say that. I don't think that the character development is poor because the character isn't scripted - that's a lazy player's excuse.

In Fallout 3, it's what you do that defines you. Your actions, and how people and the environment change because of them, develop the character, like you said. In this kind of game, what's important is the development of the characters around the player character (this is true for Mass Effect as well, admittedly to a slightly lesser extent). The problem with Fallout 3 is that there aren't really any characters around you to reflect your changes. There are characters with whom you interact quite frequently, like Moira, or Elder Lyons, but most of them don't really have much variability, and they're mostly quite lacking in depth. Nobody reacts to everything you do; they only react to major events, or whether you have good or bad karma. I never felt a connection to any character in Fallout 3, particularly not my own. I felt more like my fighting style defined my character than anything else.

Sure, Mass Effect has an advantage by the player having a real person to begin with. So let's look at another RPG where you start with a blank slate - Dragon Age. Just as with Fallout 3, it's what you do that defines you. However, this time you are surrounded by other characters, who will always react to what you're doing. There isn't a karma system, because there doesn't have to be - you know what kind of person by the people you have around you. As they develop, you develop. And they do develop - as you interact with them, they open up to you, fall in love with you, get offended, leave, etc. You can even invoke some fairly major personality changes.

Of course, Dragon Age and the Mass Effect games are less open and more linear than the Fallouts (new ones, not counting the **** old ones) and Oblivion. While I truly believe that nobody can make a better RPG than Bioware, that doesn't detract from the 200+ hours I've put into Oblivion over the years, or the fact that I stayed up to catch the 3am digital release of Fallout: New Vegas.

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Where the flying **** did the edit button go? I meant to add that I was really attached to some of the characters in Dragon Age, including my own.

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Phalanges

There's nothing wrong with linear games. Bioshock, Portal and Half Life are about as linear as you can get, and they're great.

I don't really like how sandbox is becoming the thing to strive for and linear is something to be derided, particularly in mediocre games where it's just basically filler.

Reply 8228

OP

Original post by Phalanges

There's nothing wrong with linear games. Bioshock, Portal and Half Life are about as linear as you can get, and they're great.

I don't think anybody is contesting that. Sandbox and linear games are fantastic as separate aspects of gaming. The only time 'linear game' is used in the negative is when it is too restrictive with a few hours of gameplay and little replayability.

I don't really like how sandbox is becoming the thing to strive for and linear is something to be derided, particularly in mediocre games where it's just basically filler.

I don't think it is. From interviews with developers whose games are a fairly linear experience, they tend to incorporate (or strive to) the choice system rather than make their game properly sandbox, if you look at some of the games - the choice system isn't really a separate gameplay experience. See Bioshock. Similarly, a lot of core gamers are disassociated with sandbox games because they want a purpose or a strict way of playing a game. I found this with some games, I get irritated when I know I won't be going back to a game and will be missing out on certain aspects of the game because I didn't explore a certain level or path.

(edited 13 years ago)

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kingrudding

6

Original post by Phalanges

There's nothing wrong with linear games. Bioshock, Portal and Half Life are about as linear as you can get, and they're great.

I don't really like how sandbox is becoming the thing to strive for and linear is something to be derided, particularly in mediocre games where it's just basically filler.

Linear games can be rewarding, especially when done very well, such as bioshock. I even think that games like halo, that are as linear as you can get still have a certain beauty about them, especially as you are immersed in a world that is alive around you. You can't compare it to something like just cause 2, where you had this huge map to explore and endless diversions, as they were 2 completely different game styles, both are amazing, but in different ways.

Original post by Phalanges

Anyone talking positively about Film 2011 automatically goes down in my estimations.

Scenes when I am pulled out of the moment, like awkward exposition or showy camerawork just for the hell of it.

An utterly generic film that doesn't do or try anything unique.

Moments of fan service or referencing that intrudes on the enjoyment of the film for anyone who doesn't get it.

Fan service in films can be so stupid, like in X3 with Juggernaught.

Reply 8230

OP

Original post by kingrudding

I even think that games like halo, that are as linear as you can get still have a certain beauty about them, especially as you are immersed in a world that is alive around you.
.

Bungie have never denied or downplayed their winning formula either. 15 minutes of insanely fun gameplay replicated for hours. That's the concept behind their games. And it works perfectly.

Reply 8231

OP

I like the tangents and detours this thread embarks upon. :cute:

Reply 8232

Original post by Ape Gone Insane

Bungie have never denied or downplayed their winning formula either. 15 minutes of insanely fun gameplay replicated for hours. That's the concept behind their games. And it works perfectly.

I got bored playing Halo 3 :dontknow:

Reply 8233

OP

Original post by Jace Falco

I got bored playing Halo 3 :dontknow:

It didn't interest me when playing solo, but it was insanely fun when I had 3 other friends (online) playing co-op on Legendary. Did you not give co-op a try? Game takes on a whole new level of fun, unmatched by games even today. I love co-op games as much as single player ones. Left 4 Dead and all that. And soon, Portal 2.

That said, Halo: Reach I'm not interested in. I thought I would love it, it just doesn't do anything for me.

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FinalFlash

11

Just watched The Departed. :coma:

Can anyone recommend me a similar themed film? Or a Motivative film? :colondollar:

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Seanisonfire

15

Just to lighten the mood...

Reply 8236

OP

Original post by FinalFlash

Just watched The Departed. :coma:

Can anyone recommend me a similar themed film? Or a Motivative film? :colondollar:

Infernal Affairs (Departed is the remake), Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels or Reservoir Dogs. :yep:

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FinalFlash

11

Original post by Ape Gone Insane

Infernal Affairs (Departed is the remake), Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels or Reservoir Dogs. :yep:

Thanks.

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