For those who haven't heard from CS yet, it may be worth checking your application status online. I and a few others got rejected but weren't notified by email. :s-smilie:

Reply 1786

natashabedford

2

Original post by Doughnuts!!

For those who haven't heard from CS yet, it may be worth checking your application status online. I and a few others got rejected but weren't notified by email. :s-smilie:

I checked. Still in the running. Probably just as disappointing tbh

Reply 1787

miml

17

Just checked CS and MS online.

No news from CS, it still says "Application under review". MS doesn't let me check my application so no idea what they are doing with it.

Reply 1788

Michael XYZ

2

Has anyone heard from other places like HSBC, BarCap, Nomura etc.?

Reply 1789

natashabedford

2

Original post by miml

Just checked CS and MS online.

No news from CS, it still says "Application under review". MS doesn't let me check my application so no idea what they are doing with it.

Yeah, MS application system is so bad. I cant find my application/check it either.

Original post by Michael XYZ

Has anyone heard from other places like HSBC, BarCap, Nomura etc.?

Nope, nothing. Did BarCap and Nomura tests. Otherwise, nothing. u? u do an HSBC test?

Reply 1790

Michael XYZ

2

Err, no don't think I did a HSBC test.

I didn't apply to JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley and outside of those, I did tests for 5 firms I believe.

Reply 1791

Marc Fiorano

11

Original post by Michael XYZ

I didn't apply to JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley

Why not, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't apply to BNP, HSBC, Nomura and DB

Reply 1792

Michael XYZ

2

Original post by Marc Fiorano

Why not, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't apply to BNP, HSBC, Nomura and DB

Failure on my part really.

I was still at uni when the deadlines for those passed and I didn't think they would end so quickly. I looked at a few places and they seemed to usually have deadlines of January or something so I thought I was safe just applying after term finished.

Reply 1793

lilly xx

Original post by Industrious Orca

A brand name? Like 'Bob's financial advisory company ltd'? If you got onto a programme like the JPMorgan Schools Programme then that shows that you were good enough for JPMorgan and made it through their process. If you did some work experience somewhere else with no rigid application process, then it shows that daddy had some contacts and got you in, more often than not. Bankers aren't stupid, they know how you got that work experience.

It doesn't reduce the risk in hiring; at 19 years old which most people here will be, doing 6 months at 'Bob's financial advisory company ltd', doesn't show that you can add value at Goldman Sachs, and the banks know that too; it shows you're interested, but doesn't show that you will be a top banker.

Banks don't care if you have contacts, why would they care?

It won't trump any EC, because it shows that you had contacts and got in that way (unless it's a named programme such as the JPMorgan one above). Being on the executive committee (of 10s of people, not 'eveyone') of the finance society with several thousand students on your mailing list trumps that. Managing your own investment fund at the age of 19 with over 60% of funds from outside investors trumps that. Holding down positions in 2 first team sports teams (including captaining one) with training 3 times a week trumps that.
All my ECs show that i can take on a load of work at once and achieve at all of it to a high standard. Your work experience shows that your daddy has contacts. Bankers aren't stupid and know this stuff. I've come further with my ECs than i would have with 5 different placements at finance firms.

Work experience is not needed at all, and not the most important thing by any stretch until you're applying for an associate position. You might get an internship with Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan or Morgan Stanley through having 5 different placements in corporate finance on your CV; there's more than one way to do it; from my experience, ECs have proved to be better than work experience for me.

WOOOOAH! CHILL!
I said you've done really well and all cred for getting offers with no work experience! Ironically, I have no work experience apart from the JPM Schools Programme so I wasn't talking about me I was talking about what I know from speaking to HR at recruitment and networking events!
Contacts mainly means the people you met during your work experience, so not daddy, the employees you met. But if you want to work in Sales or IB you will be PAID based on your contacts! So you imght need to do some more reading if you think contacts mean nothing?

The EC's you listed are great (apart from a mailing list - LOL) but dull dull dull. If you think every third application that comes in doesn't have at least one or two of those on it, you're very naive. Although maybe individually managing a fund, with 60% external investors, not friends/family/anything-to-do-with-uni so investors with contracts is a really good one i'll give you that.

But chill, if you've got a goldman offer (and long before anyone else seems to have had even a goldman FO interview at that...) then you have nothing to be defensive about! relish that you got where you are without any work experience!
breatheeee....

Oh, and 'brand name' means FTSE 250/established HF/Big 4 Corp Fin....they have their lists.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 1794

Industrious Orca

6

Original post by lilly xx

WOOOOAH! CHILL!
I said you've done really well and all cred for getting offers with no work experience! Ironically, I have no work experience apart from the JPM Schools Programme so I wasn't talking about me I was talking about what I know from speaking to HR at recruitment and networking events!
Contacts mainly means the people you met during your work experience, so not daddy, the employees you met. But if you want to work in Sales or IB you will be PAID based on your contacts! So you imght need to do some more reading if you think contacts mean nothing?

The EC's you listed are great (apart from a mailing list - LOL) but dull dull dull. If you think every third application that comes in doesn't have at least one or two of those on it, you're very naive. Although maybe individually managing a fund, with 60% external investors, not friends/family/anything-to-do-with-uni so investors with contracts is a really good one i'll give you that.

But chill, if you've got a goldman offer (and long before anyone else seems to have had even a goldman FO interview at that...) then you have nothing to be defensive about! relish that you got where you are without any work experience!
breatheeee....

Oh, and 'brand name' means FTSE 250/established HF/Big 4 Corp Fin....they have their lists.

What do you mean chill. I didn't swear or anything lol.

The JPM schools programme is a decent programme and is one of the only ones that shows that you are wanted by a big named organisation. Any other sort of work experience at this level is just through contacts which isn't as impressive. Maybe you've spoken to HR at the banks that i haven't spoken to HR at and visa versa, but from what i've gathered and my experience, work experience just shows that you have an interest in finance and specifically the area where it was (otherwise you wouldn't spend 2 weeks hanging round watching traders look at screens etc), nothing more really; it doesn't show that you've achieved anything special.

I agree that if you met people during the JPMorgan Schools programme who liked you and are keen on you, then they would help you get an interview with them for the spring week (do you have an interview?); but if you worked for a relatively unknown company then it wouldn't help you get a spring week through knowing those people etc. Contacts are important, but you have to be good as well, otherwise those contacts wouldn't take a chance on you; ECs show that you can handle high workloads and positions of high responsibility. What do you mean by getting paid based on your contacts? Clearly in FO you have your order book of clients and if you move to a different bank/set up a hedge fund you take them with you..but that won't happen when you're applying for spring weeks obviously. Contacts are important when you're in the bank as they can offer you new positions etc; at spring week stage, you're either good enough, or you're not good enough, and some decent ECs demonstrating your skills can set you apart more than spending 3 weeks at your dads trading firm etc.

Personally i think taking part in sports is more interesting than staring at a traders screen for 3 months during your gap year, but you know, whatever gets you the position in the end i guess. Having a combination of several decent ECs is enough to get you the interview, after that, it's up to you to perform; doesn't matter if you think everyone has those ECs, I've proved they can get you interviews.

Fair enough JPMorgan is a good brand name; but an unknown company isn't going to help as much as having some decent ECs.

Reply 1795

i_hate_teeth

10

I have to agree with lilly xx on this one.

Success in business is all about who you know.

Work experience at the very least shows that you aren't afraid to work, and EC's really don't count for much unless you're a leader.

Reply 1796

Hackett

14

Original post by i_hate_teeth

I have to agree with lilly xx on this one.

Success in business is all about who you know.

Work experience at the very least shows that you aren't afraid to work, and EC's really don't count for much unless you're a leader.

This.

After the countless people I have spoken to at CFO to anaylst level, all said that work experince was very important.

Reply 1797

Marc Fiorano

11

Original post by i_hate_teeth

Success in business is all about who you know.

No it isn't. Getting in is where leveraging contacts comes into play. It will not have any bearing on your individual performance as a trader or whatever role. Unless you regard simply getting the job as 'success', when in reality that's arguably the easiest part of a career in IB. How does knowing somebody equate to stand-out performances in trades and deals? It doesn't. In the end it all comes down to the individual and their contribution to the business.

Yes, there are cases where for example if you're favoured by a senior you will be given the lead in certain deals or with certain clients/portfolios, but again that only gets you the gig, you still have to perform.

Reply 1798

grad2014

Original post by natashabedford

Guys, chill out. Who has heard back from CS or MS yet? I, for one, have not...

have an interview in january for cs.

Reply 1799

Industrious Orca

6

Original post by Marc Fiorano

No it isn't. Getting in is where leveraging contacts comes into play. It will not have any bearing on your individual performance as a trader or whatever role. Unless you regard simply getting the job as 'success', when in reality that's arguably the easiest part of a career in IB. How does knowing somebody equate to stand-out performances in trades and deals? It doesn't. In the end it all comes down to the individual and their contribution to the business.

Yes, there are cases where for example if you're favoured by a senior you will be given the lead in certain deals or with certain clients/portfolios, but again that only gets you the gig, you still have to perform.

This.

Some decent ECs show that you can handle a high workload, organise your time, and you're an achiever. All important skills for the job of an investment banker or trader.

Work experience (unless a rigid selection process) shows that you know people. Important for getting that work experience, and if you know the CEO of Nomura, great, but bears no relevance to you actually being a good banker or trader.

Spring Weeks 2012 Thread

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