Birmingham - Second City??
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10449556/Birmingham-our-second-city-is-third-rate-and-its-children-are-paying-the-price.html
Can anyone explain to me why this place is classed as the country's "Second City", I keep hearing it. I had an arrogant Brummy boasting it was the Second City to me but couldn't come up with any valuable reasons other than it's population.
I have never heard anyone say they were going to Birmingham for a night out, like it's the place to be, it isn't exactly well known for it's scientific and academic institutions, museums, nightlife, sport, culture, architecture and history.
It just makes no sense to me, if you study British history you will barely come across this place at all, you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
In fact, Manchester and Birmingham have pretty much the same population, around 2.5 million, except Birmingham has around 30k more people. Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
Liverpool is a better contender too with around a fifth of the population, with its amazing architecture and history.
What about Edinburgh? Anyone that spends 5 minutes it Edinburgh would be stupid to think that place put itself on the map with simply a population explosion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10449556/Birmingham-our-second-city-is-third-rate-and-its-children-are-paying-the-price.html
Can anyone explain to me why this place is classed as the country's "Second City", I keep hearing it. I had an arrogant Brummy boasting it was the Second City to me but couldn't come up with any valuable reasons other than it's population.
I have never heard anyone say they were going to Birmingham for a night out, like it's the place to be, it isn't exactly well known for it's scientific and academic institutions, museums, nightlife, sport, culture, architecture and history.
It just makes no sense to me, if you study British history you will barely come across this place at all, you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
In fact, Manchester and Birmingham have pretty much the same population, around 2.5 million, except Birmingham has around 30k more people. Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
Liverpool is a better contender too with around a fifth of the population, with its amazing architecture and history.
What about Edinburgh? Anyone that spends 5 minutes it Edinburgh would be stupid to think that place put itself on the map with simply a population explosion.
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Second largest city by population.
It's also the only city outside London that has the required business support to handle many big business deals such as a multi national corporation tax over ( legal, financial support)
Birmingham has a bad reputation. I've always enjoyed visiting the place and it has lots to do. People go on about the Manchester music scene. Just have a look at some if the bands that have come out if Birmingham.
It's also the only city outside London that has the required business support to handle many big business deals such as a multi national corporation tax over ( legal, financial support)
Birmingham has a bad reputation. I've always enjoyed visiting the place and it has lots to do. People go on about the Manchester music scene. Just have a look at some if the bands that have come out if Birmingham.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Creat0r
If this post is in the wrong section please move it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10449556/Birmingham-our-second-city-is-third-rate-and-its-children-are-paying-the-price.html
Can anyone explain to me why this place is classed as the country's "Second City", I keep hearing it. I had an arrogant Brummy boasting it was the Second City to me but couldn't come up with any valuable reasons other than it's population.
I have never heard anyone say they were going to Birmingham for a night out, like it's the place to be, it isn't exactly well known for it's scientific and academic institutions, museums, nightlife, sport, culture, architecture and history.
It just makes no sense to me, if you study British history you will barely come across this place at all, you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
In fact, Manchester and Birmingham have pretty much the same population, around 2.5 million, except Birmingham has around 30k more people. Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
Liverpool is a better contender too with around a fifth of the population, with its amazing architecture and history.
What about Edinburgh? Anyone that spends 5 minutes it Edinburgh would be stupid to think that place put itself on the map with simply a population explosion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10449556/Birmingham-our-second-city-is-third-rate-and-its-children-are-paying-the-price.html
Can anyone explain to me why this place is classed as the country's "Second City", I keep hearing it. I had an arrogant Brummy boasting it was the Second City to me but couldn't come up with any valuable reasons other than it's population.
I have never heard anyone say they were going to Birmingham for a night out, like it's the place to be, it isn't exactly well known for it's scientific and academic institutions, museums, nightlife, sport, culture, architecture and history.
It just makes no sense to me, if you study British history you will barely come across this place at all, you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
In fact, Manchester and Birmingham have pretty much the same population, around 2.5 million, except Birmingham has around 30k more people. Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
Liverpool is a better contender too with around a fifth of the population, with its amazing architecture and history.
What about Edinburgh? Anyone that spends 5 minutes it Edinburgh would be stupid to think that place put itself on the map with simply a population explosion.
Its regarded as the second city because of population and GDP (though population does affect that).
In 2011 the West Midlands (essentially greater Birmingham) had 2.7m people while Greater Manchester had 2.6m. If memory serves Birmingham has a GDP of £90bn (twice Wales for interest) and Manchester has £85bn.
Personally i don't like the location of Birmingham and Manchester is much better connected (less than an hour by train to Liverpool, Sheffield and Leeds), it's possible that Manchester will become the second city.
The trouble with Birmingham is that, being right in the centre of the country, it's slightly too far from both the north and the south to be easily reachable by most people.
If someone wants to build a museum, or research centre, or music venue, they're naturally going to want to put it where it's accessible to the greatest possible number of people. The best way to do that is to build two - one in London, and the other in Manchester or Leeds or somewhere. Birmingham sadly tends to be passed over for big projects like those.
If someone wants to build a museum, or research centre, or music venue, they're naturally going to want to put it where it's accessible to the greatest possible number of people. The best way to do that is to build two - one in London, and the other in Manchester or Leeds or somewhere. Birmingham sadly tends to be passed over for big projects like those.
Original post by Arbolus
The trouble with Birmingham is that, being right in the centre of the country, it's slightly too far from both the north and the south to be easily reachable by most people.
If someone wants to build a museum, or research centre, or music venue, they're naturally going to want to put it where it's accessible to the greatest possible number of people. The best way to do that is to build two - one in London, and the other in Manchester or Leeds or somewhere. Birmingham sadly tends to be passed over for big projects like those.
If someone wants to build a museum, or research centre, or music venue, they're naturally going to want to put it where it's accessible to the greatest possible number of people. The best way to do that is to build two - one in London, and the other in Manchester or Leeds or somewhere. Birmingham sadly tends to be passed over for big projects like those.
Yes, if only we had an exhibition centre here in Birmingham, maybe even a really big one, we could even call it a National Exhibition Centre. Then we could build a huge indoor arena too, we could call that the National Indoor Arena, seems to have a nice ring to it all. Ooh, what about a convention centre, a really big one in the city centre, we could call that the International Convention Centre.
But, yeah, we're probably too badly placed here in the Midlands for anything like that to be built here.
Seeing London is the Capital of England, I think they should have made Manchester the Second city... this is not based on anything factual, just an opinion.
Original post by Kiss
Glasgow!
You serious.
A large population for sure but it's well.. dingy! I much prefer Edinburgh.
Original post by Rakas21
You serious.
A large population for sure but it's well.. dingy! I much prefer Edinburgh.
A large population for sure but it's well.. dingy! I much prefer Edinburgh.
Everyone prefers Edinburgh, and it's certainly more cultured, but Glasgow is far bigger in size and economic value (except maybe in summer when the Fringe hits Edinburgh)
Original post by moonkatt
Yes, if only we had an exhibition centre here in Birmingham, maybe even a really big one, we could even call it a National Exhibition Centre. Then we could build a huge indoor arena too, we could call that the National Indoor Arena, seems to have a nice ring to it all. Ooh, what about a convention centre, a really big one in the city centre, we could call that the International Convention Centre.
But, yeah, we're probably too badly placed here in the Midlands for anything like that to be built here.
But, yeah, we're probably too badly placed here in the Midlands for anything like that to be built here.
I'm not saying that nothing big ever gets built in Birmingham. Just that there are fewer important landmarks in Birmingham than you'd expect for a city of its size.
Original post by Creat0r
you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
That is almost certainly the reason why Birmingham is currently considered the second city.
Think of Abraham Derby and the blast furnace, Matthew Boulton and the Soho Manufactory. The greatest advance was of James Watt and Boulton who developed his steam engine around Birmingham and Tipton.
Mind you, I fully expect Manchester to take the title over more conclusively in the future. Apparently Liverpool was called the second city of the empire long ago, now there's a laugh.
Original post by Political Cake
That is almost certainly the reason why Birmingham is currently considered the second city.
Think of Abraham Derby and the blast furnace, Matthew Boulton and the Soho Manufactory. The greatest advance was of James Watt and Boulton who developed his steam engine around Birmingham and Tipton.
Mind you, I fully expect Manchester to take the title over more conclusively in the future. Apparently Liverpool was called the second city of the empire long ago, now there's a laugh.
Think of Abraham Derby and the blast furnace, Matthew Boulton and the Soho Manufactory. The greatest advance was of James Watt and Boulton who developed his steam engine around Birmingham and Tipton.
Mind you, I fully expect Manchester to take the title over more conclusively in the future. Apparently Liverpool was called the second city of the empire long ago, now there's a laugh.
During the time of empire Glasgow and Liverpool were actually extremely important.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Second largest city by population.
It's also the only city outside London that has the required business support to handle many big business deals such as a multi national corporation tax over ( legal, financial support)
Birmingham has a bad reputation. I've always enjoyed visiting the place and it has lots to do. People go on about the Manchester music scene. Just have a look at some if the bands that have come out if Birmingham.
It's also the only city outside London that has the required business support to handle many big business deals such as a multi national corporation tax over ( legal, financial support)
Birmingham has a bad reputation. I've always enjoyed visiting the place and it has lots to do. People go on about the Manchester music scene. Just have a look at some if the bands that have come out if Birmingham.
Agreed.
I have been to Brum for conferences, work related stuff and to visit friends. I always had a good time there.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Second largest city by population.
It's also the only city outside London that has the required business support to handle many big business deals such as a multi national corporation tax over ( legal, financial support)
Birmingham has a bad reputation. I've always enjoyed visiting the place and it has lots to do. People go on about the Manchester music scene. Just have a look at some if the bands that have come out if Birmingham.
It's also the only city outside London that has the required business support to handle many big business deals such as a multi national corporation tax over ( legal, financial support)
Birmingham has a bad reputation. I've always enjoyed visiting the place and it has lots to do. People go on about the Manchester music scene. Just have a look at some if the bands that have come out if Birmingham.
UB40 and The Twang are hardly Joy Division and The Smiths, are they?
Original post by Mackay
UB40 and The Twang are hardly Joy Division and The Smiths, are they?
Black Sabbath
Led Zep
Judas Priest
The Moody Blues
Traffic
Steve Winwood
Spencer Davis Group
The Streets
The Move
Electric Light Orchestra
Probably loads I've forgot as well.
Original post by Wilfred Little
Black Sabbath
Led Zep
Judas Priest
The Moody Blues
Traffic
Steve Winwood
Spencer Davis Group
The Streets
The Move
Electric Light Orchestra
Probably loads I've forgot as well.
Led Zep
Judas Priest
The Moody Blues
Traffic
Steve Winwood
Spencer Davis Group
The Streets
The Move
Electric Light Orchestra
Probably loads I've forgot as well.
The first two are obviously seminal but the rest are hardly a monumental outlay for a city of Birmingham's size. ELO were just a Doors pastiche in my view. Give me New Order any day.
Original post by Mackay
I'd say both of them are bigger than any band from Manchester tbh. 70m records sold is also pretty big I would say (Moody Blues). Think Oasis are the only one who've sold similar numbers (correct me if I'm wrong genuinely can't think of any others, Bee Gees?) but TSR > them.
This isn't about who's 'better' though, could do that until the cows come home & I'm a big fan of a lot of the Manchester music anyway particularly Joy Division & TSR. Was just meant to be pointing out there are more bands than UB40.
Original post by Creat0r
Birmingham - 1.1m. Manchester - 500k.
Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
What about founding The Football League?
Brum can make a similar number of claims. I won't be posting essays about it though, I like Manchester.
2nd in population, that's all
Original post by Arbolus
The trouble with Birmingham is that, being right in the centre of the country, it's slightly too far from both the north and the south to be easily reachable by most people.
If someone wants to build a museum, or research centre, or music venue, they're naturally going to want to put it where it's accessible to the greatest possible number of people. The best way to do that is to build two - one in London, and the other in Manchester or Leeds or somewhere. Birmingham sadly tends to be passed over for big projects like those.
If someone wants to build a museum, or research centre, or music venue, they're naturally going to want to put it where it's accessible to the greatest possible number of people. The best way to do that is to build two - one in London, and the other in Manchester or Leeds or somewhere. Birmingham sadly tends to be passed over for big projects like those.
This makes no sense. You do realise people actually live in the Midlands, right? It's not some barren wasteland that people have to cross to get from the north to south.
Original post by Creat0r
If this post is in the wrong section please move it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10449556/Birmingham-our-second-city-is-third-rate-and-its-children-are-paying-the-price.html
Can anyone explain to me why this place is classed as the country's "Second City", I keep hearing it. I had an arrogant Brummy boasting it was the Second City to me but couldn't come up with any valuable reasons other than it's population.
I have never heard anyone say they were going to Birmingham for a night out, like it's the place to be, it isn't exactly well known for it's scientific and academic institutions, museums, nightlife, sport, culture, architecture and history.
It just makes no sense to me, if you study British history you will barely come across this place at all, you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
In fact, Manchester and Birmingham have pretty much the same population, around 2.5 million, except Birmingham has around 30k more people. Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
Liverpool is a better contender too with around a fifth of the population, with its amazing architecture and history.
What about Edinburgh? Anyone that spends 5 minutes it Edinburgh would be stupid to think that place put itself on the map with simply a population explosion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/10449556/Birmingham-our-second-city-is-third-rate-and-its-children-are-paying-the-price.html
Can anyone explain to me why this place is classed as the country's "Second City", I keep hearing it. I had an arrogant Brummy boasting it was the Second City to me but couldn't come up with any valuable reasons other than it's population.
I have never heard anyone say they were going to Birmingham for a night out, like it's the place to be, it isn't exactly well known for it's scientific and academic institutions, museums, nightlife, sport, culture, architecture and history.
It just makes no sense to me, if you study British history you will barely come across this place at all, you surely wouldn't think of Birmingham's history and then think of Anglo-Saxons/ Vikings, the Medieval times, Empire, Naval history or the Industrial Revolution.
In fact, Manchester and Birmingham have pretty much the same population, around 2.5 million, except Birmingham has around 30k more people. Other than this, what does Birmingham have that Manchester doesn't (which boasts it's music scene, largest student population in Europe, first industrial city, science, famous scientists)?
Liverpool is a better contender too with around a fifth of the population, with its amazing architecture and history.
What about Edinburgh? Anyone that spends 5 minutes it Edinburgh would be stupid to think that place put itself on the map with simply a population explosion.
Just because you haven't heard about a city doesn't mean that it can't be classed as a second city.
Birmingham has some of the best culture in the whole of the UK. Think of Town Hall and Symphony Hall, the new Library of Birmingham and Birmingham Art Gallery just off the top of my head. We also have a huge student population, with University of Birmingham, Birmingham City University, Aston, UCB and Birmingham Conservatoire adding to mix of culture that defines Birmingham. We've also got one of the largest interchange rail stations outside London, in New Street Station which is currently undergoing a huge rebuilding, alongside an extension to the Metro and various other train stations. Add to that a vibrant nightime culture on Broad Street and Brindleyplace and excellent shopping in the Bullring and New Street, and it wins for me every time.
I haven't heard anything about Manchester and Liverpool, and that's probably because I don't live there. You're much more likely to think something is rubbish because you don't know anything about it. Yes, Birmingham's got its rough edges like any big city, but there are also some jewels to be found too.
A disgruntled term time Brummie.
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