Deadly gun attack in Paris: Global reactions & discussion
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Original post by lucaf
the majority of Muslims believed the Caliphs to be the successors to Mohammed, at least the first few. The leader of ISIS is just claiming to be the next (I don' think he has widespread support in that though)
They are committing a sin. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) will never have a successor and has never had one. He was the final prophet.
Original post by hasan6091
Just like the ira are a Irish problem and not a Christian problem
The crucial distinction being that the IRA never claimed to be acting in the name of the Virgin Mary or Jesus. In fact, the IRA aims were expressly nationalist in character and their ideology is socialism. Their aims were never religious
If IRA terrorists screamed "The Virgin Mary is the greatest" when they were conducting their attacks, we might well conclude they had a link to Christianity.
As it is, these Islamofascists have themselves linked their actions to Islam; that is not some Western conspiracy, it's a statement of fact
Original post by Meenglishnogood
islam didnt end after mohammeds death. in fact it only spread out of arabia due scores of successive warlords ( caliphs) that took power and marched islam into various other countries. IS are simply following islamic tradition
Islam obviously didn't end. Why would it? IS is a TERRORIST group. They kill Muslims as well. Is this an Islamic tradition as well?!
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
They are committing a sin. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) will never have a successor and has never had one. He was the final prophet.
The caliphates were not supposed to be prophets, they were Muhammad's successors as leaders of the Islamic State. You can keep saying that he had no successors all you want but it was an important thing in early post-Muhammad Islam.
Original post by lucaf
false flag? really?
I'm not sure. Ahmed Merabet was a Muslim Police Officer who tried to stop the shooters and he was shot point-blank. Proving the point that these people obviously claim to be "muslims" but don't even know the basic pillars Islam is built on. PEACE. False flag is common. Every country does this. They want power. They want people to trust them and make themselves look like the good guys. For all we know it COULD be true.
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Islam obviously didn't end. Why would it? IS is a TERRORIST group. They kill Muslims as well. Is this an Islamic tradition as well?!
You dont think the early caliphs didnt kill piles of muslims in their battle for leadership? have you not heard of the Fitnahs? islam only continuedand spread due to the caliphs military conquests
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
I'm not sure. Ahmed Merabet was a Muslim Police Officer who tried to stop the shooters and he was shot point-blank. Proving the point that these people obviously claim to be "muslims" but don't even know the basic pillars Islam is built on. PEACE. False flag is common. Every country does this. They want power. They want people to trust them and make themselves look like the good guys. For all we know it COULD be true.
Insulting the prophet does have a death sentence in Islam, so it isn't like they had no scriptural justification. And beyond conspiracy theories I don't know any actual instances of governments attacking their own citizens and claiming others did it.
Original post by lucaf
The caliphates were not supposed to be prophets, they were Muhammad's successors as leaders of the Islamic State. You can keep saying that he had no successors all you want but it was an important thing in early post-Muhammad Islam.
Let me explain. There will be no more successors. I thought you meant "successors" as in Prophets. My bad. Our Prophet said that there would only be 12 successors and ONLY 12.
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Hey there. Just to correct you there have been no successors of Muhammad and there never will be. They are extreme. They take innocent lives. That is why a lot of Muslims do not want to be associated with them.
Well alright, but it's a fact they believe that their leader is the successor of Muhammad.
A caliph - a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.
And you're wrong there have been no successors of Muhammad, you might want to read up on some Islamic History.
The main reason there are different denominations of Islam is because they warred over who was the successor to Muhammad after his death. Whether you're Shiite or Shia or Sunni, it's a core belief of these denominations that Muhammad had a successor, and you should know which one you think that is. (Even Sunni saw his friend as the rightful successor, although they don't believe in any rightful heir)
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Let me explain. There will be no more successors. I thought you meant "successors" as in Prophets. My bad. Our Prophet said that there would only be 12 successors and ONLY 12.
do you have a source for that? I have never come across anything saying that there were only meant to be 12 Caliphs. And since I would imagine Muhammad wanted the Islamic State to endure, I don't know why he would limit the number of leaders it could have.
The double standards and hypocrisy
This is usually what happens when you persistently annoy/offend somebody.
Just like in everyday life. You keep offending somebody, then eventually flip and do something back to you.
What i find interesting about this is that, when you fill a (job) application, you cannot be discriminated on race, gender, sexual orientation or religion practiced.
So religion has been put in that same category of things that you shouldn't be discriminated agains't.
Now why is that, although freedom of speak exists, the public comes down on racists, sexists, homophobia.
Why is that there isn't exactly many magazies that publish, for example cartoons of the slave trade, or cartoons making fun of women or gays.
If freedom of speak exists, then surely why are other things frowned on, but people can make fun one's religion/fate and its okay to argue freedom of speak in this case.
It seems to me that freedom of speech only applies to certain things.
Im not muslim, nor am i condoning their actions.
But if you keep offending people, one day they may say, enough is enough.
To me freedom of speak is when you can criticise the government and not face prosecution.
It doesn't mean you can go out of your way to offend others.
I wouldn't and im sure alot here wouldn't go out of their way to offend somebody and claim freedom of speech.
Most likely wouldn't end nicely.
If you argue freedom of speech, why are racists, sexists, homophobic frowned upon and could even face prosecution
This is usually what happens when you persistently annoy/offend somebody.
Just like in everyday life. You keep offending somebody, then eventually flip and do something back to you.
What i find interesting about this is that, when you fill a (job) application, you cannot be discriminated on race, gender, sexual orientation or religion practiced.
So religion has been put in that same category of things that you shouldn't be discriminated agains't.
Now why is that, although freedom of speak exists, the public comes down on racists, sexists, homophobia.
Why is that there isn't exactly many magazies that publish, for example cartoons of the slave trade, or cartoons making fun of women or gays.
If freedom of speak exists, then surely why are other things frowned on, but people can make fun one's religion/fate and its okay to argue freedom of speak in this case.
It seems to me that freedom of speech only applies to certain things.
Im not muslim, nor am i condoning their actions.
But if you keep offending people, one day they may say, enough is enough.
To me freedom of speak is when you can criticise the government and not face prosecution.
It doesn't mean you can go out of your way to offend others.
I wouldn't and im sure alot here wouldn't go out of their way to offend somebody and claim freedom of speech.
Most likely wouldn't end nicely.
If you argue freedom of speech, why are racists, sexists, homophobic frowned upon and could even face prosecution
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by lucaf
Insulting the prophet does have a death sentence in Islam, so it isn't like they had no scriptural justification. And beyond conspiracy theories I don't know any actual instances of governments attacking their own citizens and claiming others did it.
Like I said I'M NOT SURE. If you think France is a "Free Country" and that the politicians and govt. are always going to be the good guys then I'm afraid you're going to be in for a shock. Govt. do this. There is not one govt. on the planet that is not corrupt. It's just the way of the world.
Original post by lucaf
Insulting the prophet does have a death sentence in Islam, so it isn't like they had no scriptural justification. And beyond conspiracy theories I don't know any actual instances of governments attacking their own citizens and claiming others did it.
There has been many false flags and hoaxes done by the governments if only we opened our eyes to see it.
Original post by lucaf
Because when there are morons willing to kill you for drawing a cartoon, avoiding drawing that cartoon is letting the morons win. And on principle we can't have that.
Win what ? lol.
grow up man.
As the above said overall this has very little to do with islam or even the dumb cartoons.
and we all know this.
Its about men fighting for power
and now this is about the tone and effect of the overall discourse.
Original post by SamKeene
Well alright, but it's a fact they believe that their leader is the successor of Muhammad.
A caliph - a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.
And you're wrong there have been no successors of Muhammad, you might want to read up on some Islamic History.
The main reason there are different denominations of Islam is because they warred over who was the successor to Muhammad after his death. Whether you're Shiite or Shia or Sunni, it's a core belief of these denominations that Muhammad had a successor, and you should know which one you think that is. (Even Sunni saw his friend as the rightful successor, although they don't believe in any rightful heir)
A caliph - a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.
And you're wrong there have been no successors of Muhammad, you might want to read up on some Islamic History.
The main reason there are different denominations of Islam is because they warred over who was the successor to Muhammad after his death. Whether you're Shiite or Shia or Sunni, it's a core belief of these denominations that Muhammad had a successor, and you should know which one you think that is. (Even Sunni saw his friend as the rightful successor, although they don't believe in any rightful heir)
Read my post at the bottom. Some confusion.
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Read my post at the bottom. Some confusion.
Oh I see you were equating successor = prophet.
Gtocha.
Question Time: typical in Britain that the "liberal democrat" is the one on the panel least passionate about defending free speech, and droning on about how limited it is.
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Like I said I'M NOT SURE. If you think France is a "Free Country" and that the politicians and govt. are always going to be the good guys then I'm afraid you're going to be in for a shock. Govt. do this. There is not one govt. on the planet that is not corrupt. It's just the way of the world.
Corrupt but not stupid, what politician would risk it being found out?
Original post by al_94
There has been many false flags and hoaxes done by the governments if only we opened our eyes to see it.
Yes yes 9 11 was an inside job and suchwhat
Original post by matthewduncan
Win what ? lol.
grow up man.
As the above said overall this has very little to do with islam or even the dumb cartoons.
and we all know this.
Its about men fighting for power
and now this is about the tone and effect of the overall discourse.
grow up man.
As the above said overall this has very little to do with islam or even the dumb cartoons.
and we all know this.
Its about men fighting for power
and now this is about the tone and effect of the overall discourse.
Yes, it is about men fighting for power. And if you let other men stop you from drawing a ****ing cartoon then they are the ones with the power. The ones who who are willing to kill for a drawing are the ones who are trying to assert the dominance of their ideology on others, the people drawing the cartoons are showing they are not willing to be cowed.
Why do you act like it is childish to stand up for your freedoms?
Original post by NaTaLiiA513
Like I said I'M NOT SURE. If you think France is a "Free Country" and that the politicians and govt. are always going to be the good guys then I'm afraid you're going to be in for a shock. Govt. do this. There is not one govt. on the planet that is not corrupt. It's just the way of the world.
if you want critisise the french govmnt for being manipulaitve, then to b consistent u must do so for the islamic influences that are many times more manipulative
Original post by lucaf
They use "scrape goats". It's happened before (example; My Lai) and it can happen again.
Original post by lucaf
Yes yes 9 11 was an inside job and suchwhat
Yes yes 9 11 was an inside job and suchwhat
When did I mention 9/11? Are you ok there? Live in your dream land full of butterflies and unicorns for all I care. You certainly don't know what you're talking about.
(edited 9 years ago)
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